Chapter 127 Conversation with Indonesian Prime Minister Shastro Amizoyo

(May 26, 1955) There is no barrier between us.We are good for you, because what is good for you is also good for us.I hope you will become strong and develop, which is good for us and for world peace.The Asian and African countries just held a meeting[1] in Bandung. These countries should all become stronger, including Japan.Japan was not good in the past, but now it is also being bullied.It would be great if all countries bullied by imperialism become stronger. Thanks to the initiative and convening of the Colombo Five[2], and under the auspices of the Indonesian President and Prime Minister, the Bandung Conference was held successfully.China participated in this meeting as an Asian and African country, and in this capacity China has also done its part.China is willing to cooperate with all countries in friendship, and China's participation in this meeting is not to do bad things.Because of China's attitude, some countries that are unfriendly to us, such as Japan, the Philippines, and Thailand, can still get along with us in the meeting, and they can get along without any serious problems.Of course, there are still many awkwardnesses, but there are still some things in common.We have one situation in common with these countries, and they also have the same difficulty, that is, they are bullied by the imperialist country of the United States.Thailand's economy is also underdeveloped.Although Japan is more advanced than us, it also has economic difficulties.This is generally speaking, of course there are individual exceptions.So, politically and economically, we generally have something in common.This Asian-African Conference is probably the first conference ever held by Asian and African countries.

Due to their long-term aggression for hundreds of years, Western countries have developed a mentality towards Asia and Africa, and despise backward countries.They say we are people of color.This is to distinguish by skin color, just like talking about non-ferrous metals.We "non-ferrous metals" will expand, of course, we will not invade others.But "non-ferrous metals" are more valuable, because non-ferrous metals include gold, silver, copper, tin and so on. If a nation has not only preserved but also developed over the centuries, it must have its strengths, otherwise it is incomprehensible.Western countries say that our nation is not good, so how can our nation survive and develop?

We hit it off very well.We have spoken with Prime Minister Nehru[3] and Prime Minister U Nu[4] and now with Prime Minister Shastro Amijoyo.We can get along well as friends.In front of the Western countries, our problem is to unite and defend ourselves, not to play tricks on each other and hurt each other.Our relationship is not mutual harm, but mutual benefit, not only commercially and culturally, but also politically, Bandung Conference is an example.We want these countries to see progress every year.We're going to help each other out with some difficult problems that might be solved.We each have our own difficult problems, and we help each other to solve these problems.To this end, we must take steps to eliminate the ignorance and barriers that exist between us and increase mutual understanding.For example, there used to be a Tibet issue between China and India, an issue of overseas Chinese and a border issue between China and Myanmar, and an issue of overseas Chinese between China and Indonesia.For those countries that have little relationship with us, we have to take concrete steps to solve some problems.Even in countries like Thailand and the Philippines, our thinking is the same, as long as possible, we will strive to improve relations with them.We once talked with Prime Minister Nehru and Prime Minister U Nu about the issue of Thailand and asked them to help us persuade Thailand.Thailand said they were afraid that we would send troops to fight it, but how could they fight indiscriminately? Thailand was also afraid of our Dai Autonomous Region[5].We said it could send a consul to Kunming to see if we were going to fight it.Premier Zhou once talked with the foreign minister of Thailand in Bandung, also in order to build a good relationship.If possible, I hope that Mr. Prime Minister will tell us when we meet the leaders of Thailand and the Philippines, and tell them that China wants to be friendly with their countries.

Even Western countries, as long as they are willing, we are also willing to cooperate with them.We are willing to use peaceful methods to solve existing problems.Wars are always bad, especially for Western countries, and history has proven this.Although both sides lost materials and lives in the war, history has proved that the war has a political consequence that is not good for Western countries.After the First World War, Soviet Russia got rid of the old relationship; after the Second World War, China and many countries were liberated.The Second World War produced two results: first, countries run by communist parties like China, Poland, and Czechoslovakia; Movements led by activists made these countries independent or close to independent countries.Egypt has changed a lot since World War II, as have many Near and Middle Eastern countries.Although the United States has become stronger, the camp of Western countries has generally weakened.

A few years ago, everyone in this room was illegal, we were all "outlaws", "traitors", "bad guys".But that has changed now.We drove out those so-called good people, you drove out the Japanese and the Dutch, we drove out the Japanese, the Americans and Chiang Kai-shek.These people say we are very bad.Prime Minister Nehru, Prime Minister U Nu and Prime Minister Shastro Amizoyo have all sat in the prison for a long time.We can use this history to convince Western countries.They say that they are very powerful, so why did we all become independent after the Second World War? This historical basis is very powerful, and it is not a rumor, nor is it scary.Western countries have frightened us for hundreds of years in the past, are they frightening us now, or are we frightening them? Therefore, the conclusion is that it is best not to fight the Third World War, if it is fought, the result will not be bad for us, It is not detrimental to Asian and African countries, but detrimental to Western countries.It's okay to say it's scary, but we have a basis for saying this, and we have the history of the two world wars as a basis for that.It is with this in mind that we say, use negotiation to solve the problem, give it a try.Moreover, the Korean War and the Indochina War were both resolved through negotiations in the end, and the Taiwan issue can also be resolved through negotiations.We have made this clear at the Bandung Conference, and we can use this to convince Western countries.But the western countries may not listen, their ideas are one sided, thinking that they have more steel, more money, more atomic bombs.Are we afraid of these things? A little bit, but not very much.We say that we are a little afraid, because weapons kill people.Our people don't want to suffer, so we don't want war.The role of these things in the hands of Western countries will not exceed the power of the people, because the people are alive.There are many kings in Western countries, such as kerosene kings, steel kings, and automobile kings. History has proved that the end of the kings is not good.Hitler[6], Mussolini[7], Tojo[8], and Chiang Kai-shek were all once great kings.This room is where the emperor once lived, but they are no longer here.Kings have many things in their hands, but the people have nothing in their hands.I believe that Indonesian friends also had nothing in their hands when they started fighting.We start the struggle unarmed, our opponents are armed.But the unarmed people drove the armed ones away.The history of thousands of years has proved that the more things in the hands of decaying people, the faster they will fall.Therefore, the conclusion is still the same: peace is paramount.

As far as the atomic bomb is concerned, the Asian and African countries are proletarians, and our countries do not have even a single atomic bomb.It is hoped that countries that are rich in this regard will make good use of their "treasures". If they use them indiscriminately, it may not be beneficial to them.We don’t even have an atomic bomb, so how can we invade others? Wouldn’t it be dangerous to invade people with atomic bombs with both hands? But people call us “aggressors” and say that the Chinese are easy to invade.First, we "invaded" mainland China, and now we want to "invade" Kinmen and Matsu; second, Kim Il Sung[9] "invaded" North Korea to the 38th parallel[10], and China later helped Kim Il Sung Thirdly, Ho Chi Minh[11] also "aggressed" to the seventeenth parallel[12].And the kind of people who say we seem to be very peaceful.We have heard that the Dutch also said that Indonesia was going to "invade" West Irian[13].

Mr. Prime Minister said that Indonesia wants to use its abundant resources peacefully, and I completely agree.The future of Indonesia is amazing, there are so many treasures.Although Japan is relatively developed now, but its resources are poor, Indonesia will definitely surpass Japan.The population of Indonesia and Japan is about the same, but Indonesia has a large place, a good climate, and especially rich resources. In a few years, a new Indonesia stronger than Japan will appear.Of course Indonesia is using its resources peacefully, which is also beneficial to other people. The Chinese people fully support the Indonesian people in defending their country.We believe that the Indonesian people also support the Chinese people in defending their country.I can't find any conflict of interest between our two countries, but only mutually beneficial aspects of cooperation between our two countries.

There is hope for the unity of Asian and African countries, and the Bandung Conference has already taken the first step.In the future we should work together and continue to work, unite and promote peace.Even if there is war, we can postpone it.We want to strive for a peaceful environment for as long as possible, which is hopeful and possible.If the U.S. is willing to sign a peace treaty, it can be for as long as it needs to be. Fifty years is less than a hundred years. I don’t know if the U.S. will do it.The main problem now is the United States, and I don't think you will object. According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Selected Works" published in 1994 by Central Literature Publishing House and World Knowledge Publishing House.The original title was "Peace Above all".

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] Refers to the first Asian-African Conference held in Bandung, Indonesia from April 18 to 24, 1955, namely the Bandung Conference.The meeting was attended by the five sponsors of Myanmar, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), India, Indonesia and Pakistan, as well as Afghanistan, Cambodia, the People's Republic of China, Egypt, etc., a total of 29 Asian and African countries.The meeting extensively discussed issues such as national sovereignty, anti-colonial struggle, world peace, and economic and cultural cooperation among participating countries. The "Asian-African Conference Final Communiqué" was issued, and the famous ten principles for promoting world peace and cooperation were put forward.

[2] Refers to Burma, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), India, Indonesia and Pakistan.From April 28 to May 2, 1954, the prime ministers of these five countries held a meeting in Colombo, the capital of Ceylon, and proposed to hold an Asian-African conference.From December 28 to 29 of the same year, they held their second meeting in Bogor, Indonesia, and decided to jointly sponsor the Asian-African Conference in 1955. [3] Nehru, then Prime Minister of India. [4] U Nu, then Prime Minister of Myanmar. [5] In 1953, my country established the Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Region and the Dehong Dai and Jingpo Autonomous Region in Yunnan Province, which were later changed to autonomous prefectures in 1955 and 1956, respectively.

[6] Hitler, see note [3] on page 94 of this volume. [7] Mussolini (1883-1945), the leader of Italian fascism.He joined the Italian Socialist Party in his early years, but was expelled later.Organized the Fascist Party in 1921, seized power by violence in 1922, and established a Fascist dictatorship.In 1939, he concluded a political and military alliance with Germany, and followed Germany in World War II the following year.In July 1943, his dictatorship collapsed due to military defeat and the rise of the domestic anti-fascist movement.On April 28, 1945, he was executed by Italian guerrillas. [8] Tojo, namely Hideki Tojo, see note [4] on page 94 of this volume. [9] Kim Il Sung, then Chairman of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea and Prime Minister of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. [10] 38th line, see note [5] on page 99 of this volume. [11] Ho Chi Minh, then Chairman of the Central Committee of the Vietnam Labor Party and Chairman of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. [12] For the seventeenth parallel, see Note [9] on page 373 of this volume. [13] West Irian refers to the western half of New Guinea Island and its offshore islands in Indonesia, now Irian Jaya Province.When Indonesia became independent in 1949, the Dutch government continued to occupy the area with the support of the United States.The Indonesian government has repeatedly hoped to resolve the West Irian issue through negotiations, but it has repeatedly been obstructed and sabotaged.In order to safeguard the independence and sovereignty of the country, the Indonesian people launched a massive armed struggle to recover West Irian and anti-colonialism, forcing the Dutch government to agree to negotiations.On May 1, 1963, the Dutch government returned the sovereignty of West Irian to Indonesia.