Chapter 124 Conversation with Prime Minister U Nu of Myanmar

(December 11, 1954) Mao Zedong: Prime Minister U Nu can probably see that our policy is to be friendly with you.The Five Principles[1] is a big development, and some work needs to be done according to the Five Principles.We should take some steps to realize the five principles concretely, and not make the five principles abstract and just talk about it.Now there are two attitudes in the world, one is to talk and talk, and the other is to implement it concretely.The United Kingdom and the United States also talk about peaceful coexistence, but they just talk about it. If they really want peaceful coexistence, they will stop doing it.We are not like that.We believe that the five principles are a long-term policy, not a temporary solution.These five principles are suitable for our country, which needs a long-term peaceful environment.The five principles are also suitable for your country's situation, and for most countries in Asia and Africa.For us, stability is better, not only internationally, but also domestically.

I know that Prime Minister U Nu once talked with Chairman Liu Shaoqi about the domestic situation in Myanmar.We wish you peace in your country.As for how to achieve domestic peace, that is up to you to deal with.It would be inappropriate for us to express our attitude on this specific issue. The problem of the Communist Party is not a national problem, but a worldwide problem, because most countries have a Communist Party.So countries have to deal with their own problems. There are also parties, groups and individuals in your country that are not friendly to us, as well as in other countries such as India and Indonesia.But it is not good for us to interfere, and it is not good for us to tell these parties, groups and individuals that they should not oppose us.Every country has several kinds of parties.With regard to these types of parties, we cannot express which parties we oppose and which parties we support.We can only solve the problem by targeting the government of each country.I hope you understand why we have adopted this attitude.

Wu Nu: This is a very correct attitude, any other attitude is incorrect.I fully agree with the Chairman. Chairman Mao: Both the Burmese people and the Chinese people have seen the steps we have taken, such as the five principles and the issues resolved in the communiqué of the talks[2].Between our two nations, our two governments, and our two peoples, we do not distinguish between parties, but have initially resolved our common problems. There are also various parties and groups in China.There are differences among the various parties in China, and they are not at the same level. There are differences between leaders and being led.All democratic parties in China recognize the leadership of the Communist Party of China.There are also various groups in China, including workers' groups and even capitalists' groups.However, the Myanmar government, Prime Minister U Nu and Ambassador U Lamao can only treat all Chinese parties as equals, and cannot express satisfaction with one party and dissatisfaction with another party.Otherwise, some parties will be dissatisfied.

We do the same with Myanmar.If we express our attitude towards any party in Myanmar in the name of the government, we will offend the party and some people. Now that this issue has been touched upon, we would like to say that we want peace in Myanmar.Prime Minister U Nu said Myanmar's civil war has become a heavy burden.I'll see if you can talk yourselves and see if a compromise can be reached.If this can be done, Myanmar will be able to devote all its energy to construction.We'll be happy to see that.As a personal suggestion, talk to yourselves informally first, try it out, don't block the way.It is best to talk informally and tentatively first. If you can reach an agreement, it's best. If you can't, just let it go for a while and talk again when you have a chance.

Our approach to Tibet can be used as your reference.We are going to talk and discuss with the local government of Tibet for a long time.Regarding the social reform in Tibet, we are not insisting that we must do it now. If after discussing with them, if they say yes, we will do a little bit, and if they say no, we will not do it for the time being.Of course, China's experience can only be used for your reference, because the internal situation of our two countries is different.All countries should deal with their own problems according to their own conditions. Here, too, the question of revolution can be addressed at the same time.It is rare in history for a country to rely on the help of foreign countries and the help of parties in other countries to win the victory of the revolution.The countries in Eastern Europe were occupied by the Soviet Army when they were fighting Nazi Germany. Otherwise, it would have been impossible to win victory with the help of foreign countries and the export of revolutions from foreign countries.It is in this sense that we say that revolution cannot be exported.But this does not mean that the revolution of a country is immune to foreign influence.The independence of several countries such as Burma, India, Indonesia, Pakistan and Ceylon [3] is not completely immune to foreign influence.However, Burma's independence was not achieved through the help of any foreign country in terms of human, material and financial resources.

We see a different situation in Guatemala, Central America.The United States intervened there, helping the opposition party organize troops in other countries to enter Guatemala, and the American ambassador instigated it within Guatemala.We will never do such a thing.We will never organize an army on the border of Yunnan into Burma, and be instigated by Ambassador Yao Zhongming[4] from within Burma.Ambassador Yao will never do such a thing. If he does, we will remove him immediately. There are also violent elements among the overseas Chinese in Myanmar. We advise them not to interfere in Myanmar's internal affairs.We educate them to obey the laws of the host country and not to associate with political parties that oppose the Burmese government with armed forces.We do not organize a Communist Party among overseas Chinese, and the existing branches have been disbanded.We do the same in Indonesia and Singapore.We asked overseas Chinese in Myanmar not to participate in political activities in Myanmar, but only to participate in some activities approved by the Myanmar government, such as celebrations, etc., and not to participate in others.Otherwise, it will make us very embarrassed and difficult to handle affairs.

We have three million overseas Chinese in Thailand, and our policy is the same.Thailand is unfriendly to us, not because of us.We really want to improve our relations with Thailand.As we are so close to Thailand, it is logical that we should have a good relationship.Foreign newspapers suspected that we set up the Dai Autonomous Region to invade Thailand and to establish a "free Thailand".There are 300,000 Dai people in Yunnan Province, and they organize an autonomous region[5].There are more than seven million Zhuang people in Guangxi Province, and they also organize an autonomous region.We also have dozens of such ethnic minority autonomous regions, for example, Korean and Mongolian.We are also preparing to establish an autonomous region in Tibet.There are many types of ethnic minorities in my country, but their total number is less than 40 million.We do not engage in "Free Thailand", nor do we want to break into Thailand.Such a statement is not true.We didn't think that way, we weren't prepared that way, we didn't do it that way.

We really want to establish diplomatic relations with Thailand and mutual recognition with it.Thailand is also eligible to open a consulate in Kunming if it so chooses. Thailand says they are afraid of our invasion, but Myanmar is also afraid! But Myanmar’s approach is to improve relations with us and come to see if we want to invade Myanmar.But Thailand is not even willing to look at it.If Thailand sets up a consulate in Kunming, they can visit our Dai Autonomous Region. I hope that Prime Minister U Nu will tell the Thai authorities what we mean. Nu: I have already promised Premier Zhou.I will spend the night in Bangkok and meet the Prime Minister of Thailand.I will not only tell him that the Chinese Premier expressed his willingness to establish diplomatic relations with Thailand, but I will further tell him that China's willingness is sincere, which I found out during this visit.I hope that Prime Minister Nehru[6] will fully support my statement.

Chairman Mao: We talked with Prime Minister Nehru, but we didn't talk about it in such detail or in such a large amount.I hope that Prime Minister U Nu will pass on what we said today to Prime Minister Nehru.We will be very happy if the two of you discuss this matter with the Thai authorities, so that the relationship between China and Thailand can be similar to that between China and Myanmar. Nu: I will definitely do my best. Chairman Mao: Let me now talk about the issue of large and small countries.We believe that countries should not be divided into big and small.We are against big countries having special rights, because that puts big and small countries on an unequal footing.Big countries are one level above and small countries are one level below. This is the theory of imperialism.No matter how small a country is, even if its population is only a few hundred thousand or even tens of thousands, it should be completely equal to another country with a population of tens of millions.

This is a basic principle, not empty talk.Since we talk about equality, big countries should not harm small countries, should not exploit small countries economically, oppress small countries politically, and should not impose their own will, policies and ideas on small countries.Since we talk about equality, we must be polite to each other. A big country cannot be like the head of a feudal family and regard other countries as its children.Mr. Attlee [7] criticized the United States for its approach to Guatemala, just like the father of a medieval family looking for a wife he likes for his son.Regardless of whether they are big or small, they should have an equal, democratic, friendly and mutually beneficial relationship with each other, rather than an unequal and mutually damaging relationship.

The current situation in North and South America is like a medieval family, the United States is the head of the family, and other countries are its children.We don't want this kind of relationship in Asia.In the past, Japan wanted to do this. It talked about coexistence and common prosperity, but in fact it wanted to exploit and invade others. We have had mutual relations with Burma for five years.You can look at it for another five years, and carry out another five years of coexistence and cooperation to see if we just talk or we have to implement it. Your attitude is very good. If you have something to say, doubt or dissatisfaction, just let speak out.In the future, there will still be some problems between our two countries, and there will still be some doubts and dissatisfaction with each other. I hope we can speak out to each other so that we can take measures to solve the problems.In this way, our relationship will be better and our friendly cooperation will be further developed. Nu: Frankly speaking, in the past we didn’t dare to say anything, because we were afraid that we would be misunderstood as lackeys of the United Kingdom and the United States, and that the party that opposed us would report to you exactly like this.But now that we have met each other, discussed and understood each other, we are no longer afraid to speak out.This is one of the greatest achievements of my visit.After the meeting at Premier Zhou's home yesterday, I have already told my friend Premier Zhou about this. Yesterday I even asked Premier Zhou to release the American flight crew, which is something I usually would not do and should not do, because it would be suspected of interfering in internal affairs.But since Premier Zhou and I have a good understanding of each other, after I raised the question, Premier Zhou did not misunderstand me, which makes me very happy. Mao: Release is always necessary, but it cannot be released now.We do not kill foreigners who commit espionage, and Chinese who commit the same crime will be sentenced to death.But they committed a crime, and we cannot fail to enforce the law. my country is a big country because of its large population and large area, but it is not strong.Prime Minister U Nu has visited our car factory. We can’t even make a car, and we can’t even make an airplane. So where is our strength? But no matter how weak we are, the United States will impose its will on Neither can we.In the past when we were in Yan'an, we never surrendered.During the Liberation War, we also arrested Americans who invaded our region for espionage.No matter how strong the United States is, how much steel it can produce, how many cars and how many planes it can produce, we will not succumb to its oppression.We treat friendly nations like brothers.We will not submit a day to the nations that oppress us as long as they continue to do so. The planes these American spies took were shot down in the northeast of China, but the United States said they were prisoners of war.The real prisoners of war were the more than 20,000 North Korean and Chinese prisoners who were kept in captivity and handed over to Syngman Rhee[8] and Chiang Kai-shek.This is unreasonable, outrageous. Countries like ours have been pissed off a lot. Asian and African countries have been pissed off by imperialist powers for many years.These imperialist countries are mainly Britain, the United States, France, Germany and Japan.We are still getting angry.One day, when we truly become independent and run our own country well, we will be less angry. Your country is not small.You have a population of nearly 20 million, more than twice the size of Australia.The size of your country is very large, equivalent to nine to ten Ceylons.Your country has various products, the people are hardworking and intelligent, and various businesses can be started step by step, such as manufacturing automobiles and producing steel.There is much to be done in your country, and we would love to see your country prosper. Nu: Thank you. Chairman Mao: If all countries in Asia and Africa could do this, by then there would be no hegemony dominated by a few big countries.Asia as a whole has more than half of the world's population.The place of Asia is also a good place, with two oceans: the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean. Nu: The situation in Myanmar is very special.It is best for the Chinese Communist Party to send some impartial people to Myanmar to study the situation. We will not only receive them happily, but also give them various conveniences.They could study on the ground where the Burmese government stands and how the Burmese people feel about the rebels. Chairman Mao: It is inappropriate for us to send an observation mission to Burma, as it will give a bad impression to the outside world.Our ambassadors and consuls can conduct research from newspaper material and public documents.They cannot contact the opposition directly, but they can get to know the opposition indirectly through legal parties.Our embassy conducts this research just as your embassy conducts research here.As for your own disputes, we cannot intervene. Nu: You are here at our invitation, not against our will, so you are not interfering in internal affairs.You can even send troops if we ask you to, it's not meddling in internal affairs. Chairman Mao: It cannot be said that whatever the government wishes is not interference in internal affairs.There are four cases: First, when allied countries are fighting against a common enemy in order to oppose aggression, the troops of one allied country can go to the land of another allied country. This is not interference in internal affairs.Second, one country's establishment of military bases on another country's land, aid and loans with military and political strings attached, and espionage activities established by religious institutions in another country are all interference in internal affairs. Third, if foreign countries intervene in matters that are purely within the scope of internal affairs, such as struggles between nationalities or parties, it is interference in internal affairs. Fourth, inviting foreign professors and experts is not interfering in internal affairs, but mutual assistance. The second and third situations are interference in internal affairs, because the national interests of a country are violated. If we send an observation team to Myanmar to observe disputes between ethnic groups and parties, the Myanmar government may not regard it as interfering in internal affairs, but other ethnic groups and parties in Myanmar will have different views, and other countries will also have different opinions. Bad impression. Nu: I didn't foresee this, so leave out my suggestion then! Mao: I made a suggestion to Prime Minister U Nu, not as a government worker, but as a party worker.I am not only the chairman of the People's Republic of China, but also the chairman of the Communist Party of China.In my capacity as the chairman of the Communist Party of China, I made a suggestion to U Nu, Chairman of the Myanmar Anti-Fascist People's Freedom League. Both Chairman Liu Shaoqi and I shared some experiences in China with Prime Minister U Nu. This is an exchange of views between friends.As for whether the Burmese government will follow suit, that is entirely up to the Burmese government to decide according to its own situation.When we do business with Myanmar, we never make it a condition that the Myanmar government has a better relationship with any party. Nu: I regard the suggestions made by the Chairman and Chairman Liu as suggestions made by big brothers to a little brother.The older brother is more experienced than the younger brother.When I believe that the person giving me advice is honest, sincere, and dedicated to their people, I have the humility of a little brother to a big brother and listen to their advice. Chairman Mao: We are not big brothers and little brothers. We are brothers born at the same time in the same year, the same month, and the same day.Moreover, Burma gained independence in 1948, a year earlier than ours. NU: I am very excited to have the opportunity to have these talks.There was a time when I didn't know what kind of people I would meet in China, and I was afraid that I would meet someone like Hitler[9], and I would slap the table and shout when I spoke.But I now find that my fears were unfounded.I am very pleased with these few earnest conversations. Mao: It is natural for anyone to never understand. According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Selected Works" published in 1994 by Central Literature Publishing House and World Knowledge Publishing House.The original title was "The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence is a Long-term Policy". -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] The Five Principles refer to the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, see note [5] on page 336 of this volume. [2] Refers to the "Communication of the Talks between the Prime Ministers of China and Myanmar" published in Beijing on December 12, 1954.The main contents are: reaffirming that the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence are the unswerving guidelines guiding the relations between the two countries; mutual establishment of consulate generals in appropriate cities of the two countries; Cultural exchanges; protect the legitimate rights and interests of the nationals of both sides, and encourage the nationals to respect the laws and social customs of the country of residence; resolve the border issue between the two countries through normal diplomatic channels. [3] Ceylon, today Sri Lanka. [4] Yao Zhongming, born in 1914, was born in Dong'e, Shandong.At that time, he was the Chinese ambassador to Myanmar. [5] In 1953, my country established the Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Region and the Dehong Dai and Jingpo Autonomous Region in Yunnan Province, which were later changed to autonomous prefectures in 1955 and 1956, respectively. [6] Nehru, then Prime Minister of India. [7] Attlee, the former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, was the leader of the British Labor Party at the time. [8] Syngman Rhee was then the president of South Korea, that is, South Korea. [9] Hitler, see note [3] on page 94 of this volume.