Chapter 123 Four Conversations with Indian Prime Minister Nehru

(October 1954) one All of us in the East have been bullied by Western imperialist countries in history.Although Japan is an Eastern country, it was an imperialist country in the past, and it also bullied other Eastern countries, but now even Japan is being bullied.China has been bullied by Western imperialist countries for more than a hundred years.Your country has been bullied longer, for more than three hundred years.Now the Japanese are also in a situation of being oppressed.Therefore, we Orientals have a feeling of solidarity and a feeling of defending ourselves.Ambassador Lai Jiawen has been in China for several years, and he must understand the patriotic feelings of the Chinese people and the feelings of the Chinese people towards the people of India and other eastern countries.Although we have differences in ideology and social system, we have one thing in common, that is, we all have to deal with imperialism.Prime Minister Nehru should not think that China is completely independent and there are no problems. We still have big problems. Taiwan is still in the hands of the United States and Chiang Kai-shek.A few kilometers from the mainland we have more than thirty islands, the largest of which is three.These islands are occupied by the United States and Chiang Kai-shek, and neither our ships nor foreign ships can pass through.American planes flew over our mainland to drop secret agents.These agents work in groups of seven to ten and have radio stations.So far, dozens of such agents have been airdropped to our inland provinces.In Sichuan and Qinghai near Tibet, American planes have dropped spies and weapons to bandits there.This shows that a small group of people in the US authorities will punish us whenever they have the opportunity.

Besides, Prime Minister Nehru knew that our country is not an industrial country but an agricultural one.The industrial level of our country is even lower than that of India.We have to work hard for ten or twenty years before we can achieve some results.The imperialist countries look down on us now.The situation of our two countries is similar, which is also the common situation of Eastern countries.I read Prime Minister Nehru's speech on the 29th of last month. The sentiment expressed by Prime Minister Nehru is similar to ours. The welcome expressed by the people of our two countries to the leaders of the two countries who visited each other shows that what they emphasize is not the differences in ideology and social system, but our common ground.

The Five Principles[1] should be extended to the relations of all countries.Prime Minister Nehru said in his speech on the 29th of last month that we should be bound by the five principles and assume obligations.If a country says it won't do it, then there is reason to criticize it, and it loses its justification in people's eyes.The problem is that some major powers do not want to be bound, to make agreements based on five principles, as our two countries have done.I don't know what they think? As far as I know, the United States and the United Kingdom also said that they want peace and non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries.However, if we want to make a statement with them based on the Five Principles, they are unwilling to do so.

It cannot be imagined that any country will send troops to the United States.As for the fact that the United States is afraid of losing its place in the world, I seem to have heard that the United States is against British and French colonialism.America's fears are simply too much.It places its defense lines in South Korea, Taiwan, and Indochina. These places are so far away from the United States, but they are very close to us.This makes it difficult for us to sleep soundly. The United States does things regardless of whether others can bear it or not.For example, it did not ask China and India about the Treaty of Southeast Asia[2].There are many countries in Asia, but it only asked three: Pakistan, Thailand, and the Philippines.

Prime Minister Nehru was quite right when he said that the Southeast Asia Treaty was an American response to the Geneva Accords.The Geneva Conference[3] did good things, but the United States came to destroy them. Eden once suggested an Asian Locarno Pact[4], but later abandoned it and accepted the Southeast Asian Treaty instead.Such a big country is so cowardly.Our two countries are not afraid.When the United States invited India to participate in the Manila Conference, India had the guts not to go.India also had the audacity to vote for the restoration of China's status in the United Nations.But big countries like Britain and France are so timid.We suggest to them that they give us their great power status, shall we?

The UK often says that we do not recognize the UK; we say to the UK that it does not recognize us.We persuade Britain to learn from India. If so, Britain will be able to establish formal diplomatic relations with us.Some countries in Northern Europe, such as Norway, also dared to vote for the restoration of our country's status in the United Nations, so we also established formal diplomatic relations with Norway. Australia said it was afraid of us and that the Communist Party was going to invade it.But we don't even have ships, so how can we go to France? Australia joined the Manila Treaty, saying it was for defense.However, we proposed five principles to it, non-aggression and non-interference with it, and it refused to interfere.

I have two doubts: First, the United States is chanting anti-Communist slogans, but it is a real thing that it opposes the Communist Party.But is it really afraid of the Chinese Communist Party? China only has a few bad guns, all we have are people, agriculture and handicrafts.In my opinion, the United States is not really afraid of the Chinese Communist Party, but uses this as a topic and has other goals. Second, why do countries like the UK, France, and Australia follow the US, but India, Indonesia, Myanmar, and some countries in Northern Europe do not necessarily follow the US? I think this is because the UK, France, and Australia Their interests are tied to American cars, and when the American locomotive gives an order, they have to obey.India, Indonesia, Myanmar and some Nordic countries have not tied their interests to the US car, or have not tied it tightly, so there is no need to follow the US.

(October 19) two We have gained an experience in cooperation: whether it is between people, between political parties, or between countries, it must be mutually beneficial and must not cause any party to suffer.Cooperation cannot be sustained if either party is compromised.It is for this reason that one of our five principles is equality and mutual benefit. Mencius, one of the ancient Chinese sages, once said: "If things are not homogeneous, things are also emotional." [5] That is to say, the diversity of things is the reality of the world.Marxism also recognizes the diversity of things, which is different from metaphysics.

Countries should not be wary of each other, especially between friendly countries.It is not good to be wary of each other like our country and the United States. (October 21) three We do not agree with what Hitler[6] Germany said in the past. Hitler's Germany and Japan said in the past that they are "nothing" countries and want to obtain things from "have" countries.In the past, ten years ago, Japan was indeed a "yellow peril". We now need decades of peace, at least decades of peace, in order to develop domestic production and improve people's lives.We don't want to fight.It would be great if such an environment could be created.Whoever agrees with this goal, we can cooperate with it.Undoubtedly, India is in favor, as are Indonesia and Myanmar.

I don't think Thailand will suspect that China is going to attack it aggressively.We want to have a good relationship with it, but the Thai government is very weird and ignores us. The Philippines says they are afraid of our aggression, but we want to establish good relations with it, but it refuses to do so.Since we are afraid of aggression, let's make friends, not invade each other, and issue a statement like China and India.But it doesn't do it, it doesn't want to recognize the existence of our country.We can't figure out what it is for. The only reason is that it listens to the United States and walks on the same track with the United States. It does what the United States says.

Speaking of the United States, there is one issue we did not finish talking about last time, and that is the issue of war.Prime Minister Nehru said that the United States wants to go to war and wants to gain greater benefits by means of war.Whether war is good or not is a question worthy of study.We can take a look at who and which countries benefited from the two world wars.It can be said that the two wars were beneficial to the three types of countries and harmful to the rest of the countries. The first category of countries is U.S. imperialism, which benefited and developed in the two world wars. The second category is the countries established after the two world wars, led by the Communist Party and the working class. The third category is oppressed nations and countries, these are not led by the Communist Party, but by patriotic groups and parties, countries like India, Indonesia, Myanmar, Syria and Egypt fall into this category. If we want to wage war, we must mobilize the people, put them in a state of tension and teach them how to fight.But when the people unite, revolution is bound to take place.For example, the Chinese revolution was like this, and so was the Indian revolution.The independence of our two countries is the result of the Second World War. Without the Second World War, it would be difficult to achieve independence. Some other countries were weakened by the war, such as Germany, Italy, and Japan; although Britain and France were victorious countries, they were also weakened.In China, we rose as Japan and Chiang Kai-shek weakened.As Britain weakened, India, Burma and Egypt rose.As France weakened, Vietnam and Syria rose.As the Netherlands weakened, Indonesia rose. If there is another war, I don't know what the US military group thinks.Their past experience is that they gained benefits and development in the two World Wars, and they hope to gain greater benefits and development through another war.They think so based on their own experience, but this is only one aspect of experience; on the other hand, after the two World Wars, a country led by the Communist Party and a country led by patriotic parties were established.If there is another war, I don't think the United States will necessarily benefit, and problems will arise in the United States itself.If there is another major war, most or all of West Asia and Africa, and the whole of Latin America, will break away from imperialism. The people's revolutionary forces must be given a chance to rise.If the Bolsheviks[7] had not had the chance of the First World War, the October Revolution would have had difficulties.We fought in China for twenty-two years, but the victory was won in the last few years.After World War II, we got up when we got the chance.This is the country side led by the Communist Party. In terms of countries led by patriotic parties, we can also see some examples in Southeast Asia and West Asia.Everyone has their own opinions, but in my opinion, another major war is not worthwhile for the United States, and the entire world or most of the world will be in a state of revolution.When I say this, I don't intend to be alarmist, but based on the actual situation of the two world wars.If there is another major war, I don't think it will do any good to the United States, but will only reduce its rule. In terms of weapons, the United States thinks that it has atomic bombs and cannons, and that its navy and air force are powerful, so it relies on these things.I think that although the weapons have changed, there is no fundamental difference except that the number of people killed and wounded has increased.In ancient times, cold weapons were used, such as knives and guns.Later, thermal weapons were used, such as rifles, machine guns, cannons, etc.Now add the atomic bomb.But the basic difference is that cold weapons kill fewer people, hot weapons kill more people, and atomic bombs kill more people.Apart from the number of casualties, there was no difference.In the past, there were both cold weapons and hot weapons, and now the Soviet Union and the United States also have atomic bombs.Therefore, with the change of weapons, it is nothing more than more casualties. If there is a third world war, the number of casualties may not be in the tens of millions, but in the hundreds of millions.China does not have an atomic bomb now, and I don't know if India has one.We are just starting to research. The atomic bomb costs money, and we won't be able to make it right away. If there is a third world war, then one side will have casualties, and the other side will also have casualties, so there will be a balance.In the end, it is people who decide the outcome of a war. It depends on who holds the weapon, what the fighters who hold the weapon think is best for them, and who can fight. The first two are the main ones.As for the number of weapons, both the Indian National Congress and the Communist Party of China did not have weapons at the beginning, but now we all have weapons. In addition, there is another experience.In both world wars, the defenders won and the attackers lost.In the First World War, German troops pushed as far as Paris in the west and almost as far as Petrograd in the east, but in the end the attackers failed.The attackers in World War II, Germany, Italy, and Japan, also failed.The defensive side won, although some countries on the defensive side were weakened by the war, such as Britain and France. We can draw a conclusion: there should be no more wars, but long-term peace.The result of another major war will be unfavorable to the aggressors. Although the analysis of our two sides is similar in some places and different in some places, the conclusion is the same.When analyzing the United States, Prime Minister Nehru said that on the one hand, the United States has benefited from the war, but on the other hand, it has encountered difficulties.This kind of analysis is good.As for the tools of war, we can roughly divide them into three stages: bows and arrows, cannons and atomic bombs.Prime Minister Nehru was right to say that there is a qualitative difference.When I spoke of weapons just now, I was only speaking of the outcome of the war. No matter what weapon is used, no matter what era the war is waged in, and no matter whether the scale of the war is local or global, the result is that one side destroys the other.Of course, there are also wars where peace is negotiated regardless of the outcome, such as the 38th Parallel War[8] and the 17th Parallel War[9].In this kind of war, neither side can defeat the other at all.But in most wars, there is always one victory and one defeat, and the loser's strength is destroyed more.The so-called power includes not only the power of life, but also the power of matter.Therefore, in the final analysis, the outcome depends on the scope and size of the power damage. Of course, I mean the final outcome of the war.As a result of the Second World War, the German army was completely destroyed, while the Soviet army not only was not destroyed, but even reached Berlin.The armies of Germany, Italy, and Japan were all disarmed.Prime Minister Nehru conjectured that the third war would plunge the whole world into a period of chaos, and this conjecture is possible.The atomic bomb will destroy not only people, but also matter, but will many countries have no government? No.As long as there are people, there will always be a government.When one government is destroyed, another rises up.Human beings always have to find a way out, and the remaining people will also survive.It should also be estimated that people today have changed a lot compared to people in the past, and their consciousness of demanding liberation and independence has greatly increased. This is true in any country, including the United States. In the final analysis, it is best not to fight.If we could replace Eisenhower as chief of staff, he could listen to us and not be surrounded by his advisers.Prime Minister Nehru will do this job more smoothly than us.If we do this work, he will say that we threaten him with revolution and that he is not afraid of revolution.I think that not only wars but also tensions benefit and harm those who create them.I want to ask, is it better for people to feel safe, or is it better for people to be tense every day? Tension will raise people's awareness and prepare them to resist pressure.This is what helps the revolution. Obviously, there is no tension between China and India, we are not engaged in a war of nerves with each other, nor are we on daily alert, as we are with the United States and the Soviet Union is with the United States. Prime Minister Nehru has been in China for several days, so he must have known about our situation.We are now implementing the five-year plan, and socialist transformation is also beginning.If there is a war, our whole plan will be disrupted.Our money is spent on construction.In the event of a war, our economic and cultural projects would have to be halted, and we would have to have a war plan to deal with the war.This will delay China's industrialization process.But it will be difficult to completely destroy China and blow it to the bottom of the sea. The Chinese will always exist.So is India.Tens of millions of years ago there was a big animal called dinosaur, which was extinct during the Ice Age.But then other animals appeared, and finally humans appeared.The remnants of glaciers can still be seen in China now. In conclusion, we should work together to prevent war and strive for lasting peace. (October 23) Four About 2,000 years ago, a Chinese poet, Qu Yuan, had two poems: "There is no sorrow, no sorrow, no separation, no joy, no new acquaintance." [11] I once talked to Prime Minister Nehru at a banquet. Our feelings about India, I said that we and India do not need to guard against each other.We don't feel that India wants to hurt us. I once asked if the Prime Ministers and Foreign Ministers of our two countries made mistakes in their conversations, can they be corrected? I think they can be corrected.But this is the case between our two countries. Some other countries may catch us saying something wrong, and we will also catch some other countries saying something wrong.There is a saying in China called "catch the braid".But we and India don't hold each other's braids, we don't guard against each other, and it doesn't matter if we say the wrong thing. India is a hopeful nation, a great nation.I heard from Ambassador Yuan Zhongxian[12] that the people in southern India practice intensive agriculture and use all available land. This is a bit like the situation near Chengdu.Every good news from India makes us happy.India is well, it is good for the world. I'm glad we had these few meetings where we exchanged views.At the same time, Prime Minister Nehru held talks with Premier Zhou Enlai.The diplomacy between our two countries is very easy to handle, and there is no need to quarrel.Sometimes there are differences between friends, and sometimes they quarrel, and even quarrel to the point of flushing.But this kind of quarrel is qualitatively different from our quarrel with Dulles[13]. During Prime Minister Nehru's visit this time, he will definitely see that China is in great need of friends.We are a new China. Although we are known as a big country, we are still weak.In front of us stands a formidable opponent, that is the United States.The United States will always punish us whenever it gets the chance, so we need friends.This is what Prime Minister Nehru could feel.I think India also needs friends.This can be seen from our several meetings, our cooperation in the past few years, and the welcome and earnest talks Premier Zhou received when he visited India. Prime Minister Nehru advocated the establishment and expansion of peaceful areas, and expressed the hope that more and more countries would support peace.Creating and expanding areas of peace is a good watchword, and we agree.For this purpose, it is necessary to remove some factors that can cause suspicion and hinder cooperation.China and India signed an agreement on Tibet[14], which is conducive to eliminating factors that arouse suspicion and hinder cooperation.It is also good that we jointly announced five principles.The issue of overseas Chinese should also be properly resolved, lest some countries say that we want to use overseas Chinese to cause trouble.If overseas Chinese maintain their status as expatriates, they should not participate in the political activities of the host country; if they have acquired the nationality of the host country, they should act in accordance with the laws of the host country.Overseas Chinese should also abide by the laws of the host country. We have to solve all the problems that cause suspicion and hinder cooperation, so as to achieve the equality and mutual benefit in the five principles.Cooperation cannot be detrimental to any party, otherwise it will not last and will definitely break down.This is true whether it is cooperation between friends, between countries, or between parties.Cooperation must be beneficial, otherwise who will do it? (October 26) According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Selected Works" published in 1994 by Central Literature Publishing House and World Knowledge Publishing House.The original title was "The Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence Should Be Extended to All State Relations". -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] Refers to the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, see note [5] on page 336 of this volume. [2] Treaty of Southeast Asia, see note [4] on page 342 of this volume. [3] Geneva Conference, see note [6] on page 336 of this volume. [4] Locarno Convention, the full name is "Locarno Treaty of Guarantee". It was passed at the Cano Conference and officially signed in London, England on December 1 of the same year.The convention includes a protocol and seven treaties, the most important of which is the Treaty of Mutual Guarantees between Germany, Belgium, France, Britain and Italy (also known as the "Rhine Security Pact"), which stipulates that the signatories mutually guarantee that the German-French and Derby borders will not be violated ; Comply with the agreement on the demilitarization of the German Rhine area in the "Treaty of Versailles"; resolve all disputes through diplomatic channels.In March 1936, the German fascist government broke the contract and marched into the Rhineland area. In April 1939, it announced the abolition of the Locarno Convention.In the early 1950s, British Foreign Secretary Eden advocated building a collective security system similar to the Locarno Convention in Southeast Asia, but it was not realized due to the opposition of the United States. [5] See "Mencius Teng Wen Gong 1". [6] Hitler, see note [3] on page 94 of this volume. [7] Bolshevik refers to the Bolshevik Party, the predecessor of the former Communist Party of the Soviet Union, which was formally established in 1912. [8] The 38th Front War refers to the Korean War.At the end of World War II, the United States and the Soviet Union agreed to use the 38th parallel north latitude on North Korea as a temporary demarcation line for military operations against Japan and the scope of surrender. This line is commonly known as the "38th Parallel".In June 1950, a war broke out between the North and the South (Democratic People's Republic of Korea and South Korea) on the 38th parallel on the Korean Peninsula.Subsequently, the United States sent troops to intervene under the banner of the United Nations, and crossed the 38th parallel to aggressively invade the border between China and North Korea, seriously threatening China's security.To resist U.S. aggression, aid Korea and defend the country, the Chinese People's Volunteers fought side by side with the Korean People's Army, which dealt a heavy blow to U.S. aggression and forced it to sign the Korean Armistice Agreement in July 1953. [9] Refers to the war fought by the Vietnamese people against French aggression from 1946 to 1954.In September 1945, Vietnam declared independence and established the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.France then invaded Vietnam to re-establish colonial rule in Indochina.The Vietnamese people fought against France for more than eight years to defend their national independence.In May 1954, the Vietnamese people won a decisive victory in the struggle against the French through the Battle of Dien Bien Phu.In July, according to the Geneva Agreement, the Vietnamese People's Army and the French Army implemented a ceasefire with the 17th parallel north as the temporary military demarcation line; France recognized the independence of Vietnam and withdrew from Indochina. [10] Eisenhower, then President of the United States. [11] See Qu Yuan's "Nine Songs Shao Si Ming". [12] Yuan Zhongxian, then Chinese ambassador to India. [13] Dulles, then US Secretary of State. [14] On April 29, 1954, the governments of China and India signed the "Sino-Indian Agreement on Trade and Communications between Tibet, China and India" in Beijing.The agreement clearly takes the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence as the guideline for the relationship between the two countries, and based on this, it defines various specific measures to promote trade and commerce between Tibet, China and India, and to facilitate mutual pilgrimage between the two peoples.The main contents are: the mutual establishment of business agencies by the two sides; merchants and pilgrims from both sides conducting trade and pilgrimage as usual at designated places, and passing through certain mountain passes and roads; regulations on diplomatic, official personnel and national transit matters of the two countries, etc.The Agreement entered into force on June 3, 1954, and will be valid for eight years, expiring in June 1962.