Chapter 59 Conversation with Brazilian Journalists Marroquin and Mrs. Dutley

(September 2, 1958) Mao Zedong: Have you been waiting for a long time? Because we had a meeting, we couldn't see you sooner. Marokin: It's an honor to be interviewed by you, you can wait as long as you want.Mrs. Dutley: No matter how long you wait, we thank you for your interview.Moreover, in this way, you can have time to read more materials, and you can also stay in China for a longer period of time. Mao: What materials did you read? Ma and Du: There are your works, including "On New Democracy". Chairman Mao: I said in "On New Democracy" that after World War II, it is impossible for a country like Kemal[1]-style Turkey to reappear; the colonial and semi-colonial bourgeoisie must stand on the side of the imperial There is no other way to stand on the socialist front or on the anti-imperialist front.In fact, this view is only suitable for some countries, but not for countries such as India, Indonesia, and the United Arab Republic[2].They are not imperialist countries, nor are they socialist countries, but nationalist countries.There are many such countries in Latin America, and there will be more in the future.

Du: The book "On New Democracy" is very important to a country like Brazil. Chairman Mao: What this book talks about is the bourgeois-democratic revolution.Generally speaking, the point of view in the book is correct, only a few places like the ones mentioned above need to be supplemented. M: Can the neutral position of nationalist countries be maintained for a long time? Chairman Mao: Nothing can last forever.Imperialism cannot last forever.Socialism cannot be maintained forever, because it has to enter a higher-level communist society.A neutral position can be maintained for a considerable period of time, as long as it is still necessary.

Du: For nationalist countries, is it justified to take a neutral position? Mao: Yes.These countries stand neither on the side of imperialism nor on the side of socialism, but take a neutral stand and do not join the blocs of either group, which suits their present situation. Du: Can we maintain normal relations with both sides at the same time? Mao: In our opinion, it is possible.However, the nationalist countries take a neutral position, which the imperialist countries do not like, because the neutrality of these nationalist countries is achieved by getting rid of their control.This neutrality of the nationalist state is also an independent and uncontrolled position.We in the socialist camp welcome this neutral position of these countries because it is conducive to the cause of peace and not conducive to imperialist plans of aggression and war.We regard the independent countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America as friends, and we also regard the countries that have not yet become independent and are striving for independence as friends.We support them.

What is the population of Latin America? Ma: About 100 million. Mao: A friend of 100 million people.The population of Brazil accounts for 60% of the population of Latin America, and you are a big country.In the future, the population of Brazil will increase; the land is so large that it is about the same as China.Your country has a bright future. M: We want China to help us industrialize. Chairman Mao: As long as you are willing, there is nothing we are unwilling to do.All countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America want our help, and we are willing to do so. Du: Latin America is a very important position for the United States. The United States is retreating all over the world, so it stepped up its pressure on Latin America.

Mao: Latin America is the rear of the United States.The countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America have all been or are still the rear areas and warehouses of imperialism.Now the rear has rebelled, and many countries have shaken off imperialist rule. Du: Latin America is starting to do this, but it's not easy. Mao: You can achieve semi-independence first and then complete independence.This is the case with many countries in Asia and Africa. Some have become independent, some have been semi-independent and are striving for full independence, and some are still under imperialist rule.

M: We would like to know Chairman's opinion on China's establishment of diplomatic relations and trade with Latin American countries. Chairman Mao: As long as Brazil and other Latin American countries are willing to establish diplomatic relations with China, we welcome them all.Doing business is fine without establishing diplomatic relations.Do not do business, general contacts are also good.The social systems of China and Latin American countries are different, but they are the same in many points.First, the requirement for independence is the same.Not only do you have independence problems, we have them too.We still have the Taiwan issue, and the US is still threatening us.Even if Taiwan is recovered, the US threat will still exist.This is our greatest commonality.Second, our economy is underdeveloped.The desire to develop the economy is urgent among you, and it is also urgent among us.The common historical task of all Asian, African and Latin American countries is to strive for national independence, develop national economy and develop national culture.

M: Does the US embargo have any impact on China? Chairman Mao: For us, it has no influence, but great benefits. M: Is the chairman optimistic or pessimistic about the international situation? Mao: The current international situation is very good.It is very difficult for Western countries to achieve their goals.Their purpose is to rule wherever possible, but they are everywhere resisted.These colonial countries unite as one and call themselves Western countries.From a geographical point of view, Brazil is also considered a Western country; however, from a political point of view, the Western countries they refer to are actually the United States, Britain, France, Italy, Belgium, West Germany, the Netherlands, and so on.The sun in the western world is the setting sun in the evening, and the sun in Asia, Africa, and Latin America is the rising sun in the morning.Imperialism has always been to frighten people, and sometimes to beat people, we just don't want to be intimidated by them, don't be afraid of them.The worship of the West is a kind of superstition, which was formed by history, and now this superstition is gradually getting rid of.It is also a superstition to say that the West is advanced; on the contrary, they are backward.Naturally, they have a few things, nothing more than a few catties of steel and a few atomic bombs; in fact, this is nothing special, because they are politically backward, corrupt, and vulgar, so we look down on them.Lenin said that Asia is advanced and Europe is backward. [3] At that time, Lenin was referring to the democratic movement in China and other Asian countries, and he saw that Asia was going to run ahead of Europe.Now, in addition to the socialist camp, in addition to the national revolutionary movements in Asia, there are also national revolutionary movements in Africa and Latin America. These are all advanced, while the Western world is backward.People like Dulles [4] sound unconvinced by this sentence.They will say: "This is bragging. We have steel and atomic bombs, but why are we backward?" I said: Although they have steel and atomic bombs, these things are in the hands of backward people, in the hands of monopoly capitalists; They flaunt their power for a while, but they always fall in the end.

Breaking the superstition of the West is a major event, and it must be carried out in Asia, Africa, and Latin America.In our country, we must continue to destroy this superstition.What I am talking about is that we should despise imperialism strategically and regard imperialism as a paper tiger, which does not count; but tactically and in every specific task, we must pay attention to them and take them seriously.Imperialism has changed from a real tiger to a half-truth and half-fake tiger, and then to a complete fake tiger, that is, a paper tiger. This is a process of transforming things into the opposite. Our task is to promote this process.Before this process is over, the tiger may live for a period of time and be able to bite humans.Therefore, to fight a tiger, you need to hit it punch by punch, and you must pay attention to the boxing technique and not be careless.

People in western countries also disagree with their government's approach.When I say America is not good, I just mean that its ruling group is not good and the American people are good.Many of them are not awakened yet, but they will be. Du: We believe that your explanation is very helpful for Latin America. Chairman Mao: We are very concerned about the situation of the Latin American people.We are very interested in the story of Nixon's visit to eight countries in South America[5]. M: He received a great "welcome".Dulles was also very "popular" in Rio de Janeiro.

Chairman Mao: The people of Latin America have risen. They don't take Nixon and Dulles seriously.In their eyes, Nixon and Dulles were just paper tigers.Both Nixon and Dulles were behind, and the people of Latin America were far superior to them. According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Anthology" published in 1994 by the Central Literature Publishing House and the World Knowledge Publishing House, the original title was "Strive for National Independence and Break the Superstition of the West." -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

note [1] Kemal, also translated as Kemal (1881-1938), is a representative of the Turkish national commercial bourgeoisie.After World War I, he led Turkey's national liberation movement and bourgeois democratic revolution.In 1923, a bourgeois republic was established in Turkey and was elected as the first president. [2] The United Arab Republic, referred to as the United Arab Republic, was formed in 1958 by the merger of Egypt and Syria.Syria seceded from the United Arab Republic in 1961 to form the Syrian Arab Republic.In 1971 the name of the United Arab Republic was changed to the Arab Republic of Egypt. [3] See Lenin's "Backward Europe and Advanced Asia" (Volume 2 of "Selected Works of Lenin", People's Publishing House, 1995 edition, pages 317-319). [4] Dulles, then US Secretary of State. [5] From April 28 to May 14, 1958, US Vice President Nixon visited eight Latin American countries, including Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela. .During the visit, fierce protests against the US policy in Latin America took place in these countries one after another.When Nixon arrived in Venezuela, he was forced to end his visit early and return home.