Chapter 12 I see Su Qing

Su Qing and I are not as close friends as most people think. In fact, we rarely meet each other.Nor are they hostile to each other, as some people might imagine.It seems inevitable that peers will be jealous of each other, let alone women—all women are peers.But I think there is something special here.Even from a purely selfish point of view, I would like Su Qing to exist, I would like her to write more, and I would like many people to know her benefits, because to underestimate the value of Su Qing's articles is to underestimate the current situation. cultural level.If it is necessary to make a special column for female authors to comment on, then I really can't take pride in comparing me with Bing Xin and Bai Wei, and I am only willing to compare myself with Su Qing.

As for the personal relationship, if it is said that she has only a business relationship with me, and that she perfunctory me, and I perfunctory her in order to get manuscripts, that may be closer to the truth, but I always feel that I can’t say that there is no emotion at all. No.I think I like her more than she likes me because I know her more deeply.That's not because she's easier to understand.It is generally believed that her personality is very clear, she talks a lot and speaks directly, but she is not a person who is so clear that she can see everything at a glance.One may not understand her goodness and still enjoy her friend, just as her book may have many readers who do not quite understand its goodness.Many people, who are not interested in literature and art, still want to buy a copy of "Ten Years of Marriage" to see if there are large descriptions of sex life in it.I think they are a little bit disappointed, but they can still find some jokes.The public accepts "Ten Years of Marriage" with such an attitude, but it does not detract from the value of "Ten Years of Marriage".In the past, the public accepted it. How many of them didn't because they were unrequitedly in love with Sister Lin or Brother Bao, or because they liked the richness and ostentation in it?Even everyone can't wait to modify the ending to be satisfied.It is completely close to the hearts of the masses, even as if it grew out of their hearts, and at the same time it is a high-level art. There are such things, such as some old operas and some folk tales, which have a long history; on the one hand, plastic arts There are especially many examples.But there is no way to use this as the standard for creation.Catering to the masses may influence their temporary likes and dislikes, but it cannot last long.And he deliberately catered to him, so he couldn't write a book as sincere as Su Qing's.

And no matter how you say it, wouldn't it be a good thing that Su Qing's books can sell more and make money, and literati can save themselves, so as not to wait for others to come to save them? I think "Ten Years of Marriage" is a bit worse than "Huanjin Ji".At her best, Su Qing is able to achieve a kind of broad and kindness that is "like neighbors at the end of the world", awakening the ubiquitous memories of wife and motherhood in the past and present, which everyone is familiar with but easy to ignore.Really great.She is "woman" and "woman" is her. (But I suddenly thought of one thing: when she went through divorce before and first came out to find a job, her situation most accurately represented ordinary women. But her current status is very special. The living environment of a female writer is different from that of ordinary occupations. Women, female staff and female teachers are very different. The people around Su Qing also have a special habit, which cannot represent ordinary men. Su Qing's observation attitude has always been very subjective and direct, so, although it is all occupations The crisis of literati, I am particularly concerned about this for Su Qing.) There are also two articles that she wrote too sloppily. Melancholy.Some people criticize her skills for not being enough, but in fact, her skills are unconsciously there, and writers and readers who like fancy and childish things cannot appreciate them.When people use the big hat of art to oppress her, she can only get angry, and gradually feel guilty, because she herself doesn't know why.She has low eyes and high hands.But let’s talk about these later, let’s talk about her people now.She asked me like this: "Why is there no one like me in your novels? I have been paying attention, but I can't find it."

When I usually look at people, it is easy to look down on them. Flat little paper figurines are more convenient to put in books. "Looking flat" doesn't mean to find someone's shortcomings, but it just means to turn the three-dimensional into a flat surface, just like the black shadow of a flower on the whitewashed wall, it has been drawn there, just waiting to be ticked off with a black pen.Because I am a novelist, I think it is my duty to see the ins and outs of life very clearly.If there was hatred in the beginning, after seeing it clearly, there is only pity.What I can see is that some highly talented people clearly took a wrong step, and then they can't do anything later, because the relationship between the whole life attitude is bad and sneaky.Some are not bad, just unpromising, unclean, and unpleasant.There are many such people in my book, because they can best represent the atmosphere of modern society, and at the same time they are easier to write about.People used to say that "drawing ghosts is easy, but drawing characters is difficult". It seems that miracles such as sages, heroes, demons and seductresses are easier to express than ordinary people, but it is a matter of the depth of realism.Realism has progressed to the level of Tolstoy, but in his novels, a group of small characters are the most successful, and the great central characters are always imitated, and there is a faint feeling of inadequacy.Not to mention second-rate writers, always make their good guys the worst.So I thought, let's take it slowly and step by step, and try again when I have more confidence.

The people I write about, I can forgive anything wrong with them, and sometimes enjoy it, just because they exist and they are real.But when I meet them in my daily life, because I am immature and incompetent, I know that I will get no benefit from mixing with them.But like Su Qing, even if she offends me somewhere, I won't hold grudges. — not because she is a woman.In the request letter she wrote to me at the beginning, she said "talking about the same sex" as soon as she came, and I always laughed when I read it. ——It's not because she is bold and generous, unlike a woman.First, I don't like masculine women, and Su Qing is not a masculine woman at all.She has all the weaknesses of a woman. She cries easily, is supercilious, and is often unreasonable.For example, in the dialogue meeting two days ago, at the beginning, she expressed an opinion on women's occupation. The "reporter" person raised a question and said, "But..." She pondered for a while, her face slowly turned red, and suddenly she became a little angry, and said, "I'm not talking to you—I want you to talk to me." What are you doing to refute me?" Everyone laughed, and she laughed too.I think it's very cute.

Even in her writing, she has no superhuman rationality.Her rationality was nothing more than common sense—though common sense was a rare thing, too.Between her and her husband, she might have been angry at first, but when she got a divorce, she was calm and saw the matter very clearly and simply.Her husband was not bad, but he was just a young master.If they can be the young master and young mistress at home for the rest of their lives, their relationship can be maintained.However, the collapse of the social system behind him exposed his irresponsibility.He couldn't support his family, and his pride limited her professional development.And Su Qing's temper is like this, even if he compromises, he can't handle it well.Only separate.This reminds me of myself. Before running away from my father’s house, my mother secretly sent me a message: “Think about it carefully. With my father, of course you are rich. If you follow me, you don’t have any money. You have to eat I have endured this suffering, and I have never regretted it.” Although I was imprisoned at that time and yearned for freedom, this kind of problem still made me suffer for a long time.Later, I thought, at home, even though all I see is money coming in and out, it is not mine, and it may not be my turn in the future, and the most difficult last few years of schooling have been delayed.Thinking about it this way, I immediately decided.There was nothing impassioned about such an exodus.Our age is not romantic.

Born in the present, it is really difficult to continue to live and live to your heart's content, just like "breaking the road of life and death with your hands", so people of our generation can understand more about material life and life itself It is also appropriate to be with Aiyue.For me, Su Qing symbolizes material life.I want a Chinese-style room in the future, with snow-white powder walls, gold-lacquered tables and chairs, red chair cushions, porcelain tea bowls with beans, green glutinous rice, and piles of cakes piled up high, each with a dot on top. Wear some rouge.There is a so-called "one bright and two dark" in Chinese houses, which of course is the bright room.There is a bit of Su Qing's air here.

This article was originally about Su Qing, but I said a lot about myself. I am really sorry, but there are many things that need to be explained, and I can only explain from myself.When it comes to material things, it seems inseparable from luxury enjoyment.But I feel that stimulating pleasure is like putting water in a bathtub shallowly, sitting in it, the heat rises, and I feel dizzy pleasure, but after all, it is shallow, even if I lie down, I can’t submerge my whole body, and my thoughts are complicated. No matter how absurd a person is, it is difficult to find the whole indulgence.Maybe I don't know enough to think so.

My first impression of sensual dogs and horses is that once when I was a child, I stayed at my aunt's house. She had a banquet at night and went out, leaving me alone in the apartment.Countless bit by bit, in the dark night, the barking of dogs seemed to be boiling, which made people feel chaotic.A car passed by on the street, its bright headlights shone into the window of the building, and the shadows of the furniture in the dark room danced all over the room and flew straight to the roof. Forgot about this section in a long time.There was a relatively tense air raid some time ago, and our economic strength was not enough to flee (because fleeing is not a temporary thing, but it will be delayed for a long time in a place with nothing to do). Even without water, he had to try to leave the city.I suddenly remembered the prosperity of the traffic lights and the barking of dogs in the clouds.I was sitting alone in the dark room again, without electricity, a white candle was lit in the porcelain vat, and a green little cloud dragon protruded from the yellow porcelain vat, silently holding the round light in its mouth and not spitting out.The whole of Shanghai is dead silent, only a clock in the room can be heard ticking away.The candle is placed on a glass plate on the hot tub, and the pipe of the hot tub can be vaguely seen falling down. A small arrow points to "on" and another small arrow points to "off", as if it had been a lifetime ago.Today's tabloid was delivered as usual, and when I hold it in my hand, I feel a strange feeling of kindness and sadness.By candlelight, I struggled to read, what kind of man and what kind of man, and said witty words in our familiar tone, about big cakes, white newspapers, upstarts, and lamented recalling the golden age of the past, when three yuan was called a servant.All these things were never owned by me when they were in existence, but it is still sad to see them destroyed—for the thousands of people in the city, there is nothing else!

A clock ticks and ticks, getting louder and louder as it goes.In the future, there may not be a single hour clock on the entire earth.Staying overnight in a deserted village at night, if you suddenly hear the ticking of the pendulum, you must be surprised and delighted—the rhythm of civilization!The days of civilization are clearly divided every minute and every second, like flowers on cross cloth.I don't like cross-stitching on cross cloth. There are also puppies and people embroidered.Days and nights in the wilderness, there is no clock, just leisurely day and night, day and night, the days are like the purple halo on the light blue background of Junjiao, that's fine.

I then thought of myself, also full of plans.When I was studying in Hong Kong, I really worked hard and won two scholarships. After graduation, I still hope to be sent to the UK.I can figure out every professor's mind, so every homework is always the first in the test.A gentleman said that he had taught books for more than ten years and never gave me the marks he gave me.Then the war came, and all the school records were burned without leaving a trace.That kind of effort, even if there is success, is doomed to be overthrown, right?During my three years there, it might be beneficial for me to take a leisurely tour of the mountains and rivers, thinking it was a waste of time.I sat alone, watching the candle, thinking about the past, thinking about the present, whether the work I have been busy in the past two years is also destined to be overturned... I should know. Later, when I saw "Heaven and Earth", I knew that Su Qing was also very sad at the same night.However, this doomsday day finally passed.day after day.Lying on the bed early in the morning, I heard the sound of the curtains being drawn in the next room; at the back door, a male servant from an unknown family was talking to our aunt, and I only heard a loud buzzing voice, and I didn’t know what to say. The sound made me feel that I was sleeping deeply under the quilt, and there should be white frost on the roof tiles outside—in fact, the frost on the roof was often seen in the north when I was a child, and it was rare in Shanghai—I I always like not to draw the curtains, and I can see the day when I open my eyes.Even though I know nothing will happen that day, the beginning of this dignified is cute. At night, I sat by the brazier, and I was about to go to sleep. I poked the charcoal base, and I could have a very warm moment; , Like the night of the Yuan Dynasty in the mountain city, the fireworks set off remind people of the records of the Lantern City in the Tang and Song Dynasties.But I'm so ridiculous, I clamped the red charcoal base like fire bayberry with iron tongs, but I couldn't bear to break it.After it is broken, burn it brilliantly and it will disappear.Although I'm going to sleep soon, and it won't do me any good if the fever continues, it still hurts very much.This kind of stinginess, I really like it. I have a blue-green thin cotton gown, which is very worn out, and the cuffs are discolored. I took it out this year, only to wear it, and I took it off again, because it was about to break, so I valued it even more. I'm willing to wear it when I have another one of the same color.I don't pay attention to changing the dishes when I eat.I just picked up a chopstick and said: "It's delicious," and then said: "I'll buy it tomorrow, okay?" I won't get tired of it forever.My aunt always laughed at me for this, and said: "But, I don't know, maybe your temper is a blessing." I had a dream. I dreamed that I went to Hong Kong again. When the boat arrived, it was late at night and it was raining heavily.I carried my suitcase up the mountain in embarrassment, and managed the Catholic nuns in the dormitory. I didn't dare to wake them up, so I had to spend the night in the dark doorway. (I don’t know why I want to portray myself so pitifully, and why they treat me so harshly.) The wind direction changed, and the cold rain swept in harder and harder. I shrank my feet, but there was still nowhere to hide.Suddenly I heard a car horn sounding, and a rich guest came. A benefactor's wife brought her daughter before she was admitted to university, and she will live and study in the future.The driver banged on the door, and the dormitory was suddenly brightly lit.I took advantage of the chaos to drill in and saw the dormitory supervisor. Like seeing a late lady, I stepped forward with a smile and called "Sister".She nodded lightly, and said, "You're here too?" I didn't say much greetings, and went upstairs, found my room, and dreamed of stopping here.The next day when I told my aunt, my face gradually flushed and tears filled my eyes; I told a friend on the phone and wept again; I mentioned the dream in a letter, and I cried again here.It's ridiculous - it's rare for me to cry since growing up and being independent. I said to my aunt: "Although my aunt has experienced many things, she has no experience of this kind. She has never been a poor student or a poor relative. In fact, I was not so embarrassed when I was in Hong Kong. They are all from my class. It’s because my classmate is too rich.” My aunt said, “When did you become a poor relative?” I said, “I remember one time, not long after I left my father’s house, my aunt said, when she rummaged through the box, She wanted to find some old clothes from my cousins ​​for me to wear. I quickly said: "No, no, really, Auntie doesn't want it!" It's my turn to be rewarded." It's really stingy to remember all these things so firmly, but I think it's good for me.I was wounded to some degree, but not too serious, not enough to make me feel violent disgust, or to arouse me, more than all these; just enough to make my life more realistic, to have a realistic basis; Knowing how to cherish everything makes this world richer. When I think of poverty, I think of a time when I went to my mother and aunt, always feeling that I should not be a drag on them, and I was not sure about the future.Aunt Na was always in a bad mood, but one day she was suddenly happy because I wanted to eat steamed buns, so I made four small steamed buns with ready-made sesame paste as filling.The top of the bun was wrinkled, and looking at it made my heart wrinkle, as if I was grabbing it, and my throat was choked up, and I didn't know what it tasted like after eating it.It seems that I still smiled and said "delicious".I can't bear to think about it, but I want to think about it. Looking at the records in Su Qing's article, although she had a difficult situation for a period of time, although it was different from mine, I think the degree of emotional impact was similar to mine.So we are all very obviously secular and enterprising, and we are much more straightforward than ordinary literati when it comes to money.There are many differences in our way of life, but that is a relationship of personality. My aunt often said to me: "I don't know where you come from, you are so vulgar!" She analyzed my parents, and they seemed to be not vulgar even though they had shortcomings.Sometimes I suspect that my vulgarity is just to avoid suspicion, and I am afraid that I will be stained with celebrities; sometimes I feel that I am born vulgar.I wrote a promotional manuscript for the play myself. When I was drafting the title, the first thing that popped up in my mind was: "Talk about the city with all my heart", and I used a title like "Twenty years of life in alfalfa". A very fashionable sentence, but once I learn it, it becomes unbearably vulgar. Su Qing is—the two tall willow trees in front of her house, with light golden threads in early spring, everyone said: "Your willows are so beautiful!" She walked in and out, but never saw them.But her vulgarity often has an unintentional elegance. For example, before the Chinese New Year this year, when she had no money, she hurriedly took a rickshaw in the heavy snow, loaded it with books, sold them everywhere, and the books fell down again. Alright, the dragon and phoenix stickers on the cover of "Ten Years of Marriage" rolled in the snow one after another, it was a top-grade picture. Regarding Su Qing's dress, I used to have many opinions, but now I can understand her point of view.For her, an elegant dress is an elegant dress; for herself, it is useful; for everyone, it is to express her status, and for the people she intends to attract, it is to attract.There is very little element of "playing with the world" in Su Qing's style. Last autumn, she made a black woolen coat, and asked Yan Ying to help her look at it when she was sampling it.The three of us went to the fashion store together, Yanying said: "The one with simple lines is the most suitable for her." First remove the lapel on the coat, remove the decorative pleats, remove the large square pockets, and remove the excessive shoulders. The pad is also subtracted.Finally, the front row of large buttons will also be removed, and the hidden buttons will be replaced.Su Qing gradually disapproved, and said in a negotiating tone, "I think...buttons are always needed? Everyone has them! No, it seems a bit funny." I laughed beside me, and looked at her with my hands in my raincoat pockets.A lamp on the top of the mirror shone a strong green light on her face, against which she was lined with a broad black dress, and the background was also shadowy, her face was more clearly seen, a little pale.It is rare for her to stand quietly like this, looking at herself, although she is smiling, because she has never been so quiet, and when she calms down, there is a kind of sadness, and there is a sharp edge in the tight and bright eyebrows, which makes her feel sad. "Gone with the Wind" comes to mind. Su Qing is a man of prosperity in troubled times.She is honest at heart, and she is willing to be attached to someone; as long as there is a feast that lasts for thousands of years, she can be very busy taking care of it like the granddaughter-in-law in Li, and serving people to eat.Her family values ​​are very strong, and she helps her mother, younger siblings, and uncle with all her heart, which is beyond the scope of her responsibility.In this unreliable world, if you want to grasp something familiar and reliable, it is still your own.She loves children because "rather than letting others take advantage of me, I would rather let my own children take advantage of me."Her love also requires a reliable person, not a thrill.She should be the ideal object of high-level flirting, smart and suave, experienced, can tell everything, and can see it, but she is too serious, she can't relax, maybe she thinks it's relaxed, but she will blame others right away irresponsible.Is this a woman's contradiction?I think it's because she has a simple and healthy foundation. The number one requirement for advanced flirting is distance—and it doesn't have to be physical.Keeping a distance is to protect one's feelings from pain.Applied to other things, this can be said to be the basic idea of ​​modern people. As a result, people live lightly and have a distance from life.In theory, Su Qing often can't jump out of the circle of popular thinking, but it's a joke to advocate distance from Su Qing, because she is such a person who is so excited, she can't stretch and shrink, and pays attention to every step. . I speculate on her purely from the attitude of writing novels. There must be many mistakes, but I can only do this. Once I talked about Su Qing with Yan Ying, Yan Ying said: "I think her biggest attraction is: Men always feel that they don't owe her anything, and they feel at ease with her." However, Su Qing thinks that she suffers here .Men look up to her and treat her like a man, and she is responsible for everything.She doesn't want to.They said that she was contradicting herself, that she wanted the freedom of a new-style literati, and the rights of an old-style woman.This is the tragedy of ordinary new women, but we cannot say that Su Qing is to blame herself.Her boldness is natural.She is just a straightforward woman who seeks love as well as earning a living, but she is very disappointed, because she seems to see no one who is attractive, and some are stupid, and they are just as bad.She also has her naive side, it is easy to fantasize about people very high, and then quickly find out that he is base, and time and time again, the vision is shattered. So she said, "There is no love." There was a look of contempt in her smiling eyes.But her sarcasm is not thorough, because she has such a basic interest in life that she cannot develop deep-seated sarcasm. In China now, sarcasm is easy to please.In the previous period, everyone was sentimental.It is full of dreams and sighs of minors, confused and not very sensible.Once sensible, see through everything and enter into irony.Comedy, not satirical comedy, is just uninteresting and whitewashes reality.Originally, satire is a necessary stage to clean up those cliche sentimentality, but it is easy to stay in satire, not knowing that there can be emotion besides sentimentality.Because all you see is incompleteness, you accept this incompleteness as real: — sex is sex; don't primitive people do well without our gimmicks?Yes, but we have reached this stage of civilization, and it is impossible to retreat to the health of animals.I used to be forced to read the "Bible" in school. There is a verse that I can't remember clearly. It seems to say that the servants of God received money to do business. Those who get more can get more, and those who get less The person who can't even guarantee that, God recovers the money and punishes him.I saw it at the time, and it was very unfair.That meaning is really hard to understand. I want to explain a few more sentences like this, but I'm afraid I won't be able to explain clearly.In short, life is cruel.Seeing our shrinking and shrinking, timid wishes, I always feel infinitely miserable. For a while, it was rumored that Su Qing had reconciled with her divorced husband.I have never been a nosy person, but I was very worried when I heard it.Later, I found out that it was all a rumor, but it made sense when I thought about it. Most of her marriage was decided by the family at the beginning. Both of them were very young. They went to school together and grew up. Brothers like their own people.If Wei feels, "We're still one of us!", then he feels kind to him, not to mention that they don't have any serious incompatibility.However, her divorce was not out of anger, but after careful consideration.She ran out, wandered around the world for a while, felt bored, and went back again, denying the world and herself in this way, Su Qing couldn't stand it.She would become dumb, and sink down entirely.So I thought, if Su Qing has another lover.It was better than going back to her husband, whether it was for a moment of enthusiasm or financial help. However, she seems to be really a little tired now.Career, love, children are by my side, my mother is in the bandit atmosphere in my hometown, my younger brother has lung disease in the mainland, and my younger sister also has her problems, so many concerns.For a person with such a strong vitality like her, in fact, no matter how much she drags her feet, she will not be exhausted. It is because these things are too fragmented and divided into pieces, lacking a unified feeling.If love can be separated as a part of life, a subject, titled "love", then such love is still a substitute? Su Qing talked to me about her ideal life.Husbands must be manly, not a badass, people have airs, even if they are a bit official, they are still a bit uninhibited.They live in their own house, often treat guests, have good friends, and of course have many girlfriends, but they are all a little older than her by two years, and their appearance is slightly worse than hers, so as not to cause trouble.The nature of the husband's occupation often requires short-term travel, so the family life will not be too rigid and changeless.When her husband is away, she can spare time to socialize with her girlfriend (because she is still worried after all).Occasionally, when I got sick, my friends would come to condolences, bring food and flowers, and the phone would keep ringing. It is definitely not an excessive requirement, but there is a kind of living atmosphere here that was two years ago, and it is gone now.Of course, it doesn't mean that no one lives in their own small bungalows and treats guests to dinner every day. ——It’s that kind of stable feeling.It is indeed difficult for one person to create the entire social atmosphere for her, but this is a matter of personality.The more chaotic the world, the more prominent the individuality, and the difference between people is very big.Difficulty is of course hard to find.If you feel pressed for time, then, if you really want to say pressed, her time has already passed—doesn’t the “Huaxin Nianhua” in the Chinese mouth already feel twilight?But what I have seen since childhood are only many beautiful women in their 30s and 40s.In my original imagination, Bai Liusu was by no means more than thirty years old. I was afraid that this would not be acceptable to readers, so I changed her to twenty-eight years old. (It happened to be the same age as Su Qing, and I found out later) Those people I met, of course, they are well maintained, not like the hard work of modern professional women.Once I studied a truth in a conversation with a friend.Women with good looks are always (1) in good health, (2) have a stable life, and (3) are restless in heart.Because I am not determined, I always pay attention to my physical appearance and know how to be careful.Ordinary indeed.Su Qing can now live very calmly, and her beauty is the kind that is easiest to maintain, with contours and air. ——This section is full of ridiculous words, but it is really important——There are several women who are loved for the beauty of their souls. The maid in our family, the man is a poor tailor.However, after the air raid that day, I met him on the road at night. It was touching to see him rushing straight to our apartment to condolences to his wife and children.I told Su Qing about this, and she also said: "Yes..." She was silent for a while.When she was fleeing, she had no one to protect her, so she was very timid and imaginative recently, a spoiled little girl in the darkness of a nightmare.She would suddenly say: "If the bomb blows out my eyes, and I have to read it out for others to remember when I write it later, it will be terrible—" This is not like her usual behavior.If she is in a better mood, no matter what kind of adversity she is in, she still has a kind of brilliance in life.It is only good for her to encounter more adversity; more branches and details will bloom more flowers. Originally, I wanted to write an article about several ancient beauties, but I couldn't write well.It mentions Concubine Yang Gui.Concubine Yang Gui continued until she died, at the age of thirty-eight, Tang Minghuang loved her without any tiredness.I think she is definitely not relying on eloquence and a little cunning, nor is it because she is the only woman with physical beauty in Chinese history, or because of her affectionate and lively personality.With money, there will be excitement. This is a very common misconception.The wealth of the emperor's family, the Lantern Festival during the Tianbao period, the fiery trees and silver flowers, Tang Minghuang and his concubines sitting upstairs like gods, and the common people are worshiping downstairs; The menstrual period lasts; living in the splendor of such a blurred stage, the more we need a real relative.So Tang Minghuang likes Yang Guifei because she has him as a wife rather than a "concubine".Let's look at the process of Concubine Yang and Concubine Mei's struggle for favor. Concubine Yang quarreled with the emperor several times, was expelled, and went back to her mother's house. Not the same.It is this kind of place that brings them close to life and enables us to be close to them in a thousand years. Concubine Yang's excitement, I think, is like a kind of ceramic soup pot, warm and moist like jade, when the water in it gradually cools at the feet, it makes people feel gentle and melancholy.Su Qing is a small red clay stove with its own independent fire. You can see the red flames and hear the beeping and peeling explosions, but it is difficult to serve, adding coal and wood, and the smoke is choking.I also thought of a painting by Hu Jinren, which showed an old maid reaching out to the fire.Dismal mid-winter hues, taupe, purple-brown.She sat stooped, and the huge figure surrounded the small stove in all directions, and under the apron, a desolate cold air came from all parts of her body, as if the stove was about to be blown out.From this I thought of Su Qing.The whole society went to Su Qing's place to keep warm, blowing out gusts of cold wind—it was really cold weather, it had never been so cold before! So when I talked with Su Qing, I often felt reluctant to part with him afterwards.Why this is so, I have never understood before.But she wanted to complain: "You don't have a single word of cheer! Even when I speak, you may not understand immediately." Half of it is because of the dialect, but I am also really slow.I smiled apologetically and said, "I am such a person, what can I do? But you know, as long as I have a little more time, I can understand whatever you say." She said, "Yes, I I know...you can fully understand. However, at best, a girlfriend can only understand, if her boyfriend can comfort her." Her euphemisms always sound a little too much and ridiculous, but when you think about it carefully, they are solid and true.Often when she had a brilliant comment, I would say, "Why didn't you write this down?" But she opened her eyes wide, looked surprised, straightened her face, and said, "How can you write this down? "However, she may have thought afterwards that Zhang Ailing said that she could write it, so she probably wouldn't offend people who see no evil, because, within a few days, this section of opinion still appeared in her article.I feel very honored.When she saw this article, she pointed out a few verses and said: "This sentence makes sense." I laughed: "You said it yourself-of course you think it makes sense!" Regarding aggressiveness, she said : "Yes, I always feel that I want to go up, up, although it is very hazy, I don't really know how to go up....Do you think there will be an ideal country in the future?" I said, "I think Yes. But it will take many years at the fastest. Even if we can see it, we won’t be able to enjoy it. It’s the world of the next generation.” She sighed and said, “What good is that? Old. In a peaceful world, have we become dependents?" After she left, I was alone on the balcony at dusk, and suddenly I saw a tall building in the distance, with a large piece of carmine attached to the edge, which I thought was the reflection of the setting sun on the glass window, but when I looked again, it was the moon of the Lantern Festival , rose redly.I thought: "This is a troubled time." In the evening smoke, the border of Shanghai is slightly undulating, and even though there are no mountains, it seems to be layered with mountains.I thought about the fate of many people, including myself; I had a sense of gloomy life experience. "Sense of life experience" usually means self-injury and self-pity, but I think it can have a broader explanation. When the future peace comes, it will no longer be ours. We can only seek for each other nearby. However, when I said these words to Su Qing, I could imagine her cynical, worldly eyes smiling at me, listening and thinking: "I don't know what you're talking about? Maybe it's art?" Seeing her look like that, I couldn't go on talking and laughed. [Attachment] Su Qing and Zhang Ailing's Dialogue Notes ——About women, family and marriage Sponsor: Reporter Interviewer: Su Qing and Zhang Ailing Time: Afternoon on February 27th, 1934 Place: Ms. Zhang Ailing's Fable Foreword: The most prestigious female writers in the Shanghai literary world are undoubtedly Zhang Ailing and Su Qing.They both write about the subjects around them, that is to say, what they write about is their own business.It is naturally most appropriate for women to write about women, and it is especially valuable. It seems that both of their articles represent a view and a view of life among Chinese intellectual women. Even in their personal conversations, journalists often可以听到她们关于妇女问题的许多独特的见解，因此记者特约苏张两女士举行对谈，以当前中国的妇女、家庭、婚姻诸问题为对谈题材。对谈的结果非常好，更难得的是她们两位对于记者所问的，都提供了坦白的答案。记者愿意在这里向读者们郑重介绍以下的对谈记录，并向参加对谈的苏张两君表示谢意。 记者今天预定对谈的是妇女、家庭、婚姻诸问题，承蒙你们两位准时出席，非常感谢。今天对谈的题目范围甚广，我想先从妇女职业问题谈起吧！苏青女士已从家庭妇女变成了职业妇女，同时在苏女士的文章里似乎时常说职业妇女处处吃亏，这样说来，苏女士是不是主张妇女应该回到闺房里去的？ 苏青妇女应不应该就职或是回到家庭去，我不敢作一定论。不过照现在的情形看，职业妇女实在太苦了，万不及家庭妇女那么舒服。在我未出嫁前，做少女的时候，总以为职业妇女是神圣的，待在家庭里是难为情的，便是结婚以后，还以为留在家里是受委屈，家庭的工作并不是向上性的，现在做了几年职业妇女，虽然所就的职业不能算困苦，可是总感到职业生活比家庭生活更苦，而且现在大多数的职业妇女也并不能完全养活自己，更不用说全家了，仅是贴补家用或个人零用而已，而外界风气也有转变（可以说是退潮的时期），对之并不感到如何神圣而予以尊视，故目下我们只听到职业妇女嫁人而没有听到嫁了人的妇女定愿无故放弃家庭去就职的。这实在是职业妇女最大的悲哀。 记者所谓职业妇女的痛苦是不是指工作的辛苦？职业妇女的苦闷 苏青是呀，工作辛苦是一端，精神上也很痛苦。职业妇女，除了天天出去办公外，还得兼做抱小孩洗尿巾生煤球炉子等家庭工作，不像男人般出去工作了，家里事务都可以交给妻子，因此职业妇女太辛苦了，再者，社会人士对于职业妇女又决不会因为她是女人而加以原谅的，譬如女人去经商，男人们还是要千方百计赚她的钱，抢她的帽子，想来的确很苦痛。还要顾到家庭，确很辛苦。 张爱玲不过我觉得，社会上人心险恶，那本来是这样的，那是真实。如果因为家庭里的空气甜甜蜜蜜，是一个比较舒适的小天地，所以说家里比社会上好，那不是有点像逃避现实么？ 苏青从感情上讲，在家里受了气，似乎无关紧要，一会儿就恢复了，但在社会上受了气，心里便觉得非常难过，决不会容易忘怀的。 张爱玲嗳，真的！有一次我看见个阿妈打她小孩，小孩大哭，阿妈说：“不许哭！”他抽抽噎噎，渐渐静下来了。母子之间，僵了一会，他慢慢地又忘了刚才那一幕，“姆妈”这样，“姆妈”那样，问长问短起来，闹过一场，感情像经过水洗的一样，骨肉至亲到底是两样的。 苏青不知怎样，在家里即使吃了亏，似乎可以宽恕，在社会上吃了亏，就记得很牢。 张爱玲我并不是根据这一点就主张女子应当到社会上去，不应当留在家庭里。我不过是说：如果因为社会上人心坏而不出去做事，似乎是不能接受现实。 记者你们所谓“人心险恶”恐怕不过是女性方面的看法。以男性来说，他们是必须要到社会上去的，因为要生活。而女性则不然，因为她们还有一个家庭可以作逋逃薮，像男人就无法逃回家庭去，女人因为还有家庭可回，所以觉得人心太险恶了。其实社会人心的险恶，向来如此，男性是一向遭遇惯了的。职业妇女的吃亏恐怕还是由于社会轻视女性的见地，但是女性也有占便宜处，像跑单帮女人就处处占便宜。我想请问一句，就是妇女应不应该就职？ 苏青我讲，虽不定是“应该”，但已确实是“需要”的。不过问题是职业妇女除做事外还得兼顾家务，不像男职员的工作那末单纯。家务工作尤其浪费时间，我觉得烧三个人吃的菜比烧一个人的菜，工作并不加重多少，但每一家都各自烧菜，许多妇女的时间精神都浪费在这上面，所以我主张职业妇女的家庭工作应该设法减少，譬如解决管理孩子问题可以组织里弄托儿所，关于洗衣，如有价廉而工作好的洗衣店，那洗衣又何必自己动手呢？同样的，烧饭也不必一定要亲自动手，要吃饭，上公共食堂不就得了？当然，偶然高兴，自己烧一次菜，也不会觉得讨厌。我总觉得家庭里不必浪费而浪费的时间太多了，像上小菜场的讨价还价，以及轧电车等等。假使商店都是划一价钿的，女人就不必跑来跑去去拣，或是到处讨价还价了，岂不爽快。 张爱玲我觉得现在，妇女职业不是应该不应该的问题了。生活程度涨得这样高，多数的男人都不能够赚到足够的钱养家，妇女要完全回到厨房里去，事实上是不可能的，多少就需要一点副业，贴补家用。 苏青我所谓职业妇女太苦，综括起来说：第一是必需兼理家庭工作。第二是小孩没有好好的托儿所可托。第三是男人总不大喜欢职业妇女，而偏喜欢会打扮的女人，职业妇女终日辛辛苦苦，结果倒往往把丈夫给专门在打扮上用工夫的女人夺去。这岂不冤哉枉也！ 张爱玲可是你也同我说起过的，常常看到有一种太太，没有脑筋，也没有吸引力，又不讲究打扮。因为自己觉得地位很牢靠，用不着费神去抓住她的丈夫。和这样的女人比起来，还是在外面跑跑的职业女性要可爱一点。和社会上接触得多了，时时刻刻警醒着，对于服饰和待人接物的方法，自然要注意些，不说别的，单是谈话资料也要多些，有兴趣些。记者职业妇女也可以考究打扮的呀？ 张爱玲就是太吃力了，又要管家，又要做事，又要打扮。职业妇女同时还要持家，所以，如果她只能做比较轻的工作，赚的钱比男人少，也不能看不起她，说男女没有同等能力，男女平等无望那样的话。比较轻的工作，我的意思是时间比较短的，并非不费力。有些职业，很不吃力，可是必须一天到晚守在那里，那还是妨碍了家庭工作。 苏青的确，像女佣人的工作时间就是不合理的，像我家的女佣便三年不曾回家过，夫妇之道固然没有，就是她私生活也是没有的。 记者张小姐家女佣人怎样？ 张爱玲我们的阿妈早上来，下午回去，我们不管她的膳宿，不过她可以买了东西拿到这里来烧。我不很喜欢佣人一天到晚在眼前，吃饭的时候还立在旁边代人盛饭。 苏青有次我到朋友家里去吃饭，添饭的佣人还是一个小孩，他只对我直视，我真难过极了。 张爱玲尤其是剩下的菜，如果是给佣人吃的，要时刻注意，多留下一点，吃得很不舒服。 苏青我听见过一个笑话：有一次一个人吃鱼，一面吃完了，再翻过一面来，立在旁边的仆人眼见鱼不剩了，气急起来，把笔在嘴唇上抹上两撇胡子，主人问他干嘛？他说：“你顾自己的嘴吧，不用管别人的嘴了。” 用丈夫的钱是一种快乐记者现在一个职业妇女所赚的钱，恐怕只够买些零星东西，或是贴补家用吧？ 张爱玲是的，在现在的情形下，恐怕只能做到这样。记者从一个女性来看，还是用自己赚来的钱快活呢，还是用别人的钱快活？ 苏青那我要说：还是用别人的钱快活。 记者为什么呢？ 苏青用母亲或是儿子辛苦赚来的钱固然不见得快活，但用丈夫的钱，便似乎觉得是应该的。因为我们多担任着一种叫做生育的工作。故觉得女子就职业倒决不是因为不该用丈夫的钱，而是丈夫的钱或不够或不肯给她花了，她须另想办法，或向国家要求保护。 张爱玲用别人的钱，即使是父母的遗产，也不如用自己赚来的钱来得自由自在，良心上非常痛快。可是用丈夫的钱，如果爱他的话，那却是一种快乐，愿意想自己是吃他的饭，穿他的衣服。那是女人的传统的权利，即使女人现在有了职业，还是舍不得放弃的。 苏青女人有了职业，还有一个好处，就是离婚时或是寡居时，小孩可以有保障，譬如我从小就没有父亲，母亲又没有职业，所以生活不大好，假使母亲当时是职业女性也许就生活得更好。 记者男子和女子的工作效能有没有差别？ 张爱玲当然，一般女人的程度是比较差的……苏青做戏女人可没有差吧！ 张爱玲就连做戏，女人如果生得美，仿佛就使演技差一点，也可以被宽容的吧？这样的例子很多，尤其在银幕上。苏青我总不很相信，从前有一位文友对我说：“你们女人总不会拉黄包车呀”，我就回答道：“我是不能够，但是你就能够吗？” 职业女性的威胁——丈夫被别人夺去记者我看你们总以为专会打扮的女人是职业妇女的威胁，其实将来风气也许会变，一般人都会重视职业妇女，而专会打扮的女人也许反而不时髦了。 张爱玲可是男人的天性总不见得变得这样快。苏青我看到某刊物上有这样的记载（当然我也并不一定认为可靠，但无论如何总是一种有趣的讽刺），说莫斯科有一次会议里讨论到妇女的打扮问题，结果女的方面不主张打扮，男的方面都举手欢迎打扮。还有一次听到商店里有化妆品出售，虽经理论家大声疾呼，叫女人们千万别轻自堕落。但女工们还是拥挤着去争买，后来闹到红军出来维持秩序才休。张爱玲有些女人本来是以爱为职业的。 苏青她们是专家。普通的职业妇女恐怕竞争不过她们。 记者专们以“爱”为职业的女子恐怕只是少数人吧？张爱玲并不少。 苏青正当的妇女很辛苦的工作，以爱为职业的女人很容易把她们的丈夫抢了去，这对于兼做社会工作的女人真是太吃亏了。还有卖淫的制度不取消，男人尽可独身而解决性生活，结果会影响到女性方面的结婚问题。 张爱玲家庭妇女有些只知道打扮的，跟妓女其实也没有什么不同。 苏青做妓女真是最取巧的职业。犹如以武力来抢取别人用劳力获得的财富。 记者如何可以消灭这制度呢？ 苏青这是很困难的。 科学育儿法 记者苏青女士在某一篇文章里曾说过科学育儿法，究竟什么是科学育儿法呢？ 苏青我以为母亲管小孩并不是完全没有害处，倘若小孩生胃肠病，吵着哭，做母亲的，总心软，喂给他吃，可是倘若交给别人，就可以实行科学管理，不给他吃。一般的母亲没有常识，就说我，从小她们就常给我吃豆酥糖，所以现在牙齿弄得很坏，假使能采用科学管理，就不会这样。母亲的感情 记者女人常说：男人都不可靠，你们以为怎样？苏青我并不存在什么偏见，只不过在一切都不可靠的现社会里，还是金钱和孩子着实一些。 记者这样说，养孩子是女人比较好的投资？ 苏青我并不觉得顶好，不过我们宁愿让感情给孩子骗去而不愿意受别的不相干的人的骗。 被屈抑的快活 记者苏女士是不是觉得男女一切方面都该完全平等？苏青假使女人在职业及经济上与男人太平等了，我恐怕她们将失去被屈抑的快乐，这是有失阴阳互济之道的，譬如说以性心理为例吧，男的勇敢，女的软弱，似乎更可以快活一些，倘若男女一样的勇敢，就兴趣全失的了。我有这样感觉，倘若同男的一块出去，费用叫我会钞，我就觉得很骄傲，可是同时也稍微有些悲哀，因为已经失去被保护的权利了。这并不是女人自己不争气，而是因为男女有天然（生理的）不平等，应该以人为的制度让她占便宜来补足，叫我请客，便有不当我是女人的悲哀。假如我有，则我倒是很希望自己的丈夫常请人家客的。 张爱玲一般人总是怕把女人的程度提高，一提高了，女人就会看不起男人。其实用不着担忧到这一点。如果男女的知识程度一样高，如果是纯正的而不是清教徒式的知识），女人在男人之前还是会有谦虚，因为那是女性的本质因为女人要崇拜才快乐，男人要被崇拜才快乐。 苏青假如女人的程度太提高了，男的却低，女人还是悲哀的，我就独怕做了女皇，做了女皇谁又配做我的配偶呢？张爱玲前两天在报上看到关于菲律宾的一个岛上，女权很高，因为一切事情都由女人来做，男人完全被养活，懒得很，只知道斗鸡赌博。那样的女权我一点也不羡慕。苏青我说只要男女同样做事就该同样被尊重，固不必定要争执所做事情的轻重，男人会当海军会造兵舰并不比女打字员高贵，就是管小孩处理家务的女人，也同样的出着劳力。不过这也得有保障才行，法律该有明文规定：男女的职业虽然不同，但是职业的地位是平等的。现在有人说：“管家就是职业”，可是普通职业可以解职，而女人这职业是终身的，倘若丈夫中途变心时，又该怎么办呢？ 女人最怕“失嫁” 记者现在再谈婚姻问题吧。目前上海女人的结婚方式是怎样的？ 苏青目前结婚的方式还是不一律，有的新式，有的旧式，有的半新半旧。大多数是先经介绍，后交朋友然后再订婚。记者本期《杂志》里有篇文章，叫《女大不嫁》，说到现在女性择配困难，以前总是中学女生想嫁大学生，大学生想嫁留学生，现在战事发生，没有了留学生的来源，于是大学女生就难有对象，譬如一家做生意人家，要娶个大学毕业的女生做媳妇，总觉得不妥。 苏青在十年前，革命空气浓厚，大家心理上总以为娶新式老婆好，现在是停滞退潮时候，以为娶个旧式老婆反而实惠，新式女子只能找个把来做做情人，所以知识女子更吃亏了。记者假使你有个妹妹，要你替她择配，你会提出什么条件呢？ 苏青女人以“失嫁”为最可怕。过时不嫁有起生理变态的危机。不过知识浅的还容易嫁人，知识高的一时找不到正式配偶，无可奈何的补救办法，说出来恐怕要挨骂，我以为还是找个把情人来补救吧，总较做人家的正式的姨太太好，丈夫是宁缺勿滥，得到无价值的一个（整个），不如有价值的半个甚至仅三分之一。不过这样一来，社会对私生子应该承认他的地位。这样说来，似乎太便宜了男人，不过照目前（希望仅限于目前）实际情形而论，男人也有他的困难，因为在习惯和人情上，不能牺牲他的第一个妻子（假定她是不能自立的，也无法改嫁的）。而知识妇女自有其生活能力，不妨仅侵占别人感情而不剥夺别人之生活权利。自然能够绝对不侵占更好，不过现代男人多数早婚，而职业妇女常常迟嫁。这是过渡时代的无可奈何的办法。原是不足为训的，而且每人的结婚倘仅限一次实在太危险，因为年轻人观察力差，而年老了又要色衰。我的主张是尽自己能力观察，观察停当（自以为停当）就结婚，虽然总想天长地久，不过就不久长也罢，多嫁几次只不过是自己的不幸，既非危害民国的事，亦无什么风化可伤也。 记者现在的婚姻制度恐怕不能说合理吧？离婚在事实上又很困难…… 苏青离婚不成问题，至于小孩，依我说最好由父亲出钱，归母亲抚养。假如男的不出钱，不妨就带他们去做“拖油瓶”，据说范文正公便是做拖油瓶出身，他的继父姓朱，似乎后世也并不因此就看轻他。做继父的与孩子接触不多，实在没有讨厌他们的理由…… 张爱玲一半，男人也是为了面子关系。 苏青但是慢慢儿就会好的。我总觉得孩子与女人关系来得密切，并未碍着男人什么事。而后母管养前妻子女便不行，因为他们是时时接触的，容易发生冲突。 张爱玲离婚后的小孩也并不如一般人想象的那么痛苦。记者一夫一妻制到底是否合理？ 苏青比较合理，但不能严格执行，其间应该有伸缩余地。譬如说，这次战后我恐怕又要盛行多妻了（法律号不允许，亦不忍严禁）。原因倒不一定是战死的人太多，而是有许多男人活着也讨不起老婆。将来无生活能力的女人必定求着去当人家姨太太，有生活力的女人只好非正式的向别人分润些爱情。这话又该给人家骂为无志气，但希望有志气的女人们速速自去断绝生殖机能吧。 记者在现社会，早婚还是相当流行的……张爱玲早婚我不一定反对，要看情形的。有些女人，没有什么长处，年纪再大些也不会增加她的才能见识的，而且也并不美，不过年青的时候也有她的一种新鲜可爱，那样的女人还是赶早嫁了的好。因为年青，她有较多的机会适应环境，跟着她丈夫的生活情形而发展。至于男人，可是不宜于早婚，没有例外。一来年青人容易感情冲动，没有选择的眼光，即使当时两个人是非常相配的，男的以后继续发展，女的却停滞了，渐渐就有距离隔膜。而且年青人很少能够经济独立，早婚，妻子一定是由父母赡养，养成依赖的心理，于将来的前途有碍。 大家庭与小家庭 记者关于家庭制度，两位看，还是所谓小家庭制度好呢，还是旧式的大家庭好？ 苏青小家庭也苦，孤零零的，依我说顶好是跟岳父母同居，岳母与女婿，一定相处得很好，而婆婆和媳妇因为婆婆感到做母亲的太凄凉，所以会嫉妒媳妇的。 张爱玲这方法真好。我从没有想到，可是听了实在感到好。 记者倘使老夫妇只养几个男孩子不是太寂寞了么？苏青这当然也要看情况来决定。 同居问题 苏青还有，夫妻有同居的义务一条，我认为不妨自由些，想起这样长时期的同居生活，实在也是很可怕的。或同居或不同居，一方感到需要时只可向对方提出要求，倒不必因法律规定是义务而要求强制执行也。像外国人般分床分寝室还比较好一些。但最好还是像朋友一样，大家往返，不致于每个人在婚便没有一刻的私生活可过。我说女人再嫁比初嫁难，就是因为一回想到从前住在笼里的生活也就有些怕起来了。再有社会的舆论不要对男女问题太感兴趣，夫妻是否日日同居或夜夜同床尽可由他们自己去决定，分居并不碍着众人什么事，同居亦不见得肯分惠什么给众人也。 记者男女结了婚的人省，还是未结婚的省呢？张爱玲从前英文有句话说“Two canlive as cheaply as one”从前是结婚比较省钱，现在似乎情形两样了。独身的人生活简单，大家都这样想，所以不留人吃饭也没人见怪，结了婚的人，就有许多不能够避免的应酬。 谁是标准丈夫 记者依照女人的见解，标准丈夫的条件怎样？苏青第一，本性忠厚，第二，学识财产不在女的之下，能高一等更好。第三，体格强壮，有男性的气魄，面目不要可憎，也不要像小旦。第四，有生活情趣，不要言语无味。第五，年龄应比女方大五岁至十岁。 张爱玲常常听见人家说要嫁怎样的一个人，可是后来嫁到的，从来没有一个是像她的理想，或是与理想相近的。看她们有些也很满意似的。所以我决定不要有许多理论。像苏青提出的条件，当然全是在情理之中，任何女人都听得进去的。不过我一直想着，男子的年龄应当大十岁或是十岁以上，我总觉得女人应当天真一点，身人应当有经验一点。记者今天真是“畅聆高论”了，这次对谈就到这里结束吧，真是谢谢你们两位！