Chapter 56 Conversation with American journalist Snow[1]

(July and September 1936) diplomatic issues (July 15) Snow asks: What is the general policy of the Soviet government towards the capitalist state? Mao Zedong: When discussing policy issues, I must ask you to always remember that the fundamental problem facing the Chinese people today is the struggle against Japanese imperialism.The foreign policy of our Soviets is definitely conditioned by this struggle.The Japanese warlords wanted to conquer all of China and make the Chinese people their colonial slaves.The struggle against Japanese aggression, against Japanese military and economic aggression - these are the main tasks that we must not forget when analyzing Soviet policy.

Japanese aggression threatens not only China but also world peace, especially peace in the Pacific.Japanese imperialism is not only the enemy of China, but also the enemy of the peoples of the world who demand peace, especially the peoples of countries with interests in the Pacific, namely the United States, Britain, France, the Soviet Union and other countries.Japan's continental and maritime policies point not only to China, but also to these countries. In this way, Japanese aggression is not only a problem for China, but a problem that should be dealt with by all countries in the Pacific region.Therefore, the Chinese Soviet and the Chinese people must unite with all countries, peoples, parties and mass organizations to form a united front against Japanese imperialism.

What do we expect from foreign countries? At least we expect friendly countries not to help Japanese imperialism, but to at least adopt a neutral stand.We hope that they will actively assist China in resisting aggression and conquest. Q: How did the Soviet government distinguish between friendly and imperialist countries? Answer: On the question of imperialism, generally speaking, we see that some of the great powers express their reluctance to participate in a new world war, and some do not want to see Japan occupying China, such as the United States, Britain, France, the Netherlands and Belgium nation.Secondly, there are countries and smaller nations, dominions, colonies, and semi-colonies that have been under the threat of aggressive powers for a long time, such as Siam[2], the Philippines, Central America, Canada, India, Australia, and the Netherlands The East Indies[3] and so on are more or less threatened by Japan.We regard them as our friends and ask them to cooperate with us.As for the Soviet Union, which pursues a peaceful policy and has no intention of conquering or exploiting any country, it is naturally our good friend.

Therefore, in addition to Japan and those countries that help Japanese imperialism, the various types of countries mentioned above (countries against the war, colonial and semi-colonial countries, socialist countries) can form a world alliance against aggression, war and fascism. Any nation of the various types mentioned above who wishes to join this common front will be welcomed by us as a friendly nation, however much it may contribute to making this common front an effective weapon against the aggressors. Only when Nanking is determined to resist Japanese imperialism and unite with the people's revolution to form a democratic national defense government, and only then will this assistance be of real benefit to the Chinese nation.Aid could manifest itself in two ways: (1) credits and loans to Chinese anti-Japanese forces, sales of munitions and aircraft; or (2) blockade of Japan when the war of resistance actually began.If the United States and Britain can provide such assistance, the strongest friendship and sympathy will be established between the Chinese people and the people of the United States and Britain.

Question: Does the Soviet government recognize the foreign treaties concluded between the Beijing government and the Nanjing government? If so, which treaties? A: The Japanese are in fact violating these treaties.They are gradually breaking these treaties through military occupation of Northeast China, smuggling in North China, and various illegal activities.Especially in the Northeast, we can see countries losing their treaty status and normal commerce and foreign trade being disrupted by Japan.Therefore, if other countries want to maintain peaceful commercial relations with China, Japan must be checked, because the trading rights they still have are mainly threatened by Japan.

Other governments may ask: "What is your attitude toward the treaties we signed with the previous Chinese government?" To this question, our answer is clear.What is more urgent? To revise the treaty, or to save the nation? Obviously, what is more important to us is the resistance to Japan, so the Soviet government and the Chinese people will concentrate their main forces on this task. The question might arise: "Suppose the Soviet government had defeated Japan, recovered China's lost provinces, and re-established Chinese sovereignty, what attitude would it have taken then towards issues such as extraterritoriality?"

To this we can answer: At that time, if there is a Chinese government of which the Soviets are a part, we will insist on formulating policies according to the performance of these countries in wartime.Those countries that have aided China in its War of Independence and Liberation or have not opposed China can enjoy close, friendly and mutually beneficial relations with China.Of course, those countries that actively assisted Japan would not receive the same treatment. For example, Germany, which had established special relations with the puppet Manchukuo, could not be regarded as a country that was friendly to the Chinese people.

If China does win independence, foreigners' legitimate trading interests in China will have more opportunities than in the past.The production and consumption capacity of 450 million people is not only a matter of concern to the Chinese, but also attracts many countries.Once the hundreds of millions of people in our country are truly liberated, once their huge productive potential is released and used for creative activities in various fields, it will be able to promote economic development and raise the cultural level of the world.However, the productive forces of the Chinese people have hardly moved in the past. On the contrary, they have been suppressed - by their own warlords and foreign imperialism, especially Japanese imperialism.

After we have won our independence, China will negotiate treaties of mutual assistance, mutual benefit and mutual agreement with friendly nations.For Japan, we have only one way now, the way of armed resistance.But with other countries, China is ready to cooperate on a larger scale than it is doing now, and for the first time to establish such relations with them based on mutual respect.As for Japan, China must abolish all unequal treaties through the War of Liberation, confiscate all property of Japanese imperialism, and cancel all Japanese privileges, concessions and political influence in our country—including the Hemei Agreement[4], the Shanghai Armistice Agreement[5] ], the Tanggu Agreement[6], various anti-communist conventions, and other "treaties" opposed by the entire Chinese people.

In relations with other countries, we Communists disapprove of any step that would put China in a disadvantageous international position in the struggle against Japanese imperialism. Question: Does your government recognize foreign property rights in China, that is, does it recognize existing foreign investment? If not all, what types of foreign investment will be recognized, and under what circumstances will foreign businessmen be able to operate in China? Answer: The Soviet government welcomes foreign capital investment.China has failed in the past to use foreign capital to really benefit the Chinese people, and foreign capital has brought little or no benefit to the masses.Only after China has achieved real independence and democracy will it be possible to use a large amount of foreign capital to develop production on a large scale; and only a free China will be able to repay the principal of this foreign investment due to the extensive development of the productive economy and interest.

Legal foreign debt will be recognized.We will consider all foreign debts for construction purposes and for construction to be legal.We will not recognize any "political borrowing", nor will we recognize any borrowing used to fight the civil war, fight the Red Army, or use it against the interests of the entire Chinese people.We shall admit loans for the construction of railways, telecommunications, radio, and air lines, for the development of industry or agriculture, for the relief of famines, and so on. QUESTION: With regard to (a) foreign political power and (b) foreign investment, how did the policy of the Soviet government differ fundamentally from that of the KMT? Answer: The KMT used its foreign debt mainly to wage warlord civil wars or fight the Red Army, or wasted money on other stupid actions.Its borrowing has done more damage to China's political sovereignty.If a people's government is established, foreign borrowing and foreign investment should be used only to develop the basic productive capabilities of China's economic life—especially building basic industries and introducing scientific agricultural methods and agricultural organizations throughout the country.Contrary to Nanjing's policy, foreign investment that affects China's independent political rights is not recognized at all. Question: Does the new Soviet policy on foreign missionaries mean that their property rights will be recognized? Will they continue to have the right to preach, teach, own land, run schools, and other undertakings? Answer: Yes.But this does not include Japanese missionaries. QUESTION: What is the current hope of the Soviet government for the U.S. government and the American people? How can the U.S. government and people best help the Chinese people? Answer: We believe that the American people and the US government have a far-sighted view of China, and the situation is destined to play a very active role in the future of China and Japan.We hope and believe that they will form a united front with the Chinese people against Japanese imperialism and the fascist front represented by Japan.This is the best way they can help China right now.Many American people organized themselves and established "Friends of the Chinese People", "Pacific Relations Institute", "Pan Pacific Association", "China Society", etc., expressing their feelings for China and proving their true love for the Chinese people. pity.In the name of all Chinese people, we would like to express our special thanks to the "Friends of the Chinese People" for their generous assistance and support. But there are also some short-sighted American politicians who think that China's demise has nothing to do with them.We Communists see this as a misunderstanding of the reality that America's Eastern interests are closely linked with resistance to Japanese imperialism.These people advocate a policy of isolation.But as the history is further exposed, we believe that they will abandon the "isolationism" policy, and the United States will realize that its real responsibility in the Pacific is to fight against Japanese imperialism, which directly threatens the ideals and interests of the United States. Q: What is the current hope of the Soviet government for the British government and the British people? How can the British government and the British people best help the Chinese people? Answer: Our attitude towards the British people is similar to our attitude towards the American people.There are also associations similar to "Friends of the Chinese People" among the British people.We respect and welcome such British friends who truly sympathize with the Chinese people. It is quite clear that a faction of British statesmen has in the past adopted a wrong policy.The policy pursued by the British government actually made it possible for Japan to occupy Chinese territory, even if it did not in fact encourage Japan to do so.The British government appears to be adopting a new strategy, but it does not appear to have the courage to carry out its convictions in this part of the world.If Britain continues to falter and adopt a wait-and-see policy as in the past, if it continues to beg Japan for "cooperation", it will do Britain no good.The face of Japanese imperialism has been clearly seen.For Britain, it is not a friendly face, but an image of destruction. Question: Many people think that if China is Sovietized, Soviet China will be dominated by the Soviet Union, and its internal and external policies will be placed under "Moscow control". A: Everyone knows that the truth contained in fascist propaganda is so tiny that it is almost invisible to the naked eye.When Mussolini was about to conquer Abyssinia[7], he declared that he was freeing slaves in Africa.When Hitler invaded Europe, he told the German people that glory is better than bread, and told the European people that he was a lover of peace.When the Japanese warlords annexed the Northeast, they also said that they were liberating the Chinese people. Now, as you said, the fascists are clamoring that "Moscow controls China".If all this were true, it would be all possible to build a railway to Mars and buy a train ticket from Mr. HG Wells[8]. No matter how stupid the fascist propaganda is, a small number of people are deceived.Therefore it is necessary to point out its fundamental falsehood.Since China is now seeking to conclude a treaty with the Soviet Union, the fascists assert that Russia is trying to "buy" China.If so, France was already a colony of Moscow—as were several other countries in Europe that had treaties with the Soviet Union. In fact, this "logic" of the fascists shows their own desire to build a world empire - just like Japan's actions in Northeast and North China, Italy's actions in Abyssinia, and so on.They cannot conceive of any other basis for contact between the peoples of the two countries than for one to swallow the other.Hitler's actions in certain parts of Europe, Japan's actions in East Asia, Italy's actions in Africa and Spain - each of these actions was, so to speak, not only a threat of Fascist control but a real "Fascist control."But neither in these regions nor anywhere else in the world have we seen any signs of "Moscow control". However, the development of history will be different after all.With the victory of the Chinese revolution, the Chinese people will be able to welcome the Russian people as true brothers, just as they can welcome the free peoples of other countries as their true equals.The Chinese people will establish friendly relations not only with the Soviet Union, but with all nations that treat us as equals, and unite with them against the fascist countries that are trying to stop the progress of history. The Japanese are now clamoring that whoever opposes Japanese imperialism is the Communist Party.But the entire Chinese people, with the exception of a very small number of traitors, firmly oppose Japanese imperialism.Therefore, in the eyes of the Chinese people, if communism means resistance to Japan and the struggle for national liberation, then most Chinese people are not afraid of such communism. The so-called "red threat" only exists in the nightmare of traitors and traitors.On the contrary, the whole nation desperately needs such communism, just as hungry people need rice. If you think communism is a "threat" to the Chinese people, go to a Japanese general and ask his opinion.He will tell you that communism in China means national liberation movement, liberty and national sovereignty, which is why he demanded a treaty with Nanking against it.But if communism means that, that's exactly what the Chinese people want.The Chinese people are not afraid of such a movement because that is exactly what they want.They will shout: "Long live the liberated Chinese people! Long live a free, united, independent and complete China!" Stalin said in a conversation with an American journalist: "Revolutions cannot be exported."[9] It is equally true that revolutions cannot be imported.In order to survive, the Chinese people will naturally adopt the best method against Japan. In all the decisions of the Comintern or in the Constitution of the USSR we cannot find any provision for the domination of Soviet China by the USSR.Such a thing was certainly never discussed in the whole history of communism.However, we don't have to look far away. In our neighboring country, Fascist Japan, we can see very specific plans for fascist rule over China. We know from historical facts that the Soviet Union helped all oppressed nations and peoples with complete equality and sincerity.We know that it does not seek to take an inch of territory or a person from any other country. Question: The Chinese Soviet government advocates forming an anti-imperialist and anti-fascist alliance with foreign countries. Is it possible for China to establish such an alliance with democratic capitalist countries? Answer: The nature of the anti-fascist alliance is a peace alliance, which is to jointly resist those countries that wage war.If China concluded a treaty with the Soviet Union, it must be because fascist Japan was an enemy of both China and the Soviet Union. "Joint defense of peace" is the fundamental basis of the existing Franco-Soviet treaty.It could also be the basis for a similar anti-Japanese treaty among the Pacific nations. It is entirely possible and desirable for China to conclude anti-fascist treaties with capitalist democracies.It is in the interest of these countries to join the anti-fascist front for self-defense. A question before all countries is: China will be fully colonized, or resist the invaders and become a sovereign country.In the latter case, there will be a lot of opportunities for foreign countries to cooperate with China, because China will be free and the Chinese people will become an independent people with independent economic, cultural and political organizations.Such a China will always be a great and beneficial force in the world, and will be an ally for the cause of justice and the development of world culture. No country can be indifferent to the influence of such a China. But if China is fully colonized, the future of the Pacific is really dark.This would mean not only the destruction of Chinese independence, but the threat of destruction of the peoples and cultures of the nations of the Pacific Rim, and would be the beginning of a long series of terrible, stupid wars. A choice must be made.The Chinese people themselves will take the road of struggle against the oppressors, and we hope that foreign politicians and people will also march on this road with us, instead of taking the dark path paved by the bloody history of imperialism. Therefore, on this basis, you hear the people of our Soviet China shouting: "People of all countries unite! Resist the aggression and oppression of Japanese fascism!" We believe that such a union is practically achievable, because we see no good reason to think that it is incompatible with the aspirations of all civilized human beings in the Pacific region who sincerely demand peace and mutual friendship.