Chapter 52 Conversation with American Journalist Snow[1]

(September 24, 1939) Snow: There seem to be some differences in the interpretations of the political basis of the War of Resistance between the KMT and the Communist Party.The Communist Party has repeatedly pointed out that the United Front is the political basis of the War of Resistance (see Mao Zedong's "On Protracted War", "On the New Stage", etc.), but this statement has no place in the KMT's literature and speeches.The Kuomintang believed that the political foundation of the War of Resistance was the submission of the Communist Party and other political groups to the dictatorship of the Kuomintang.

I visited General Zhang Qun[2] in Chungking to ask his opinion on this point.He said: Now there is no question of the united front. China has only one legal party—the Kuomintang, and one legal government—the National Government. The "border government" is completely illegal and will eventually be abolished.General Jiang Dingwen[3] told me the same thing in Xi'an.He said that apart from the Kuomintang, there is no other legal party in China, and the Communist Party no longer exists after it agreed with Chairman Jiang. One can also be responsible for official or military positions.Chen Lifu[4] also said the same thing last year.

The Generalissimo Chiang himself recently told a German journalist: "There is not a single member of the Communist Party left in China," which clearly denies the legal status of the Communist Party and, therefore, the idea of ​​a united front. What is your opinion on these remarks? Where is the legal basis of the United Front? Is there any legal status for the Communist Party? When one party denies the existence of the other, can there be a nominal unity between the two parties? front? Mao Zedong: China has long had a de facto united front. In the hearts, mouths, words, and actions of the majority of the people, there is also a nominal united front. That is to say, in the hearts, mouths, and words of the majority In China and in action, there is a united front in name and in reality.However, among a small group of people, they may actually recognize the united front, but they are unwilling to recognize it in name, and there is no united front in their words and letters.Our previous attitude towards these people is called Ah-Q doctrine, because the Ah-Q described in Mr. Lu Xun's novels is to say that he is right and wins every day, while others are always wrong and always fail. of.From the perspective of Ah-Qists, there seems to be no united front.If you don't believe me, you can read Mr. Lu Xun's "The True Story of Ah Q".

There is a small group of people in China who have always been willing to learn from Hitler.As you all know, Hitler once said something like this. He said: "The Soviet Union is just a name, and there is no such country in the world." However, Hitler also had a certain awakening because of his education. On August 23, he suddenly discovered that not only was there a Soviet Union in name, but there was actually a Soviet Union.Among the Ah-Qists in China, I think there are quite a few who are likely to make progress. If they still do not recognize the existence of the so-called united front or even the existence of the so-called Communist Party, then no one can rule out the existence of the so-called Communist Party in the future. On a certain day of the year, they can also recognize the existence of the Communist Party and the United Front both in name and in fact.In the past, there was a sage in China named Mencius, who once said: "It is enough to know the end of the autumn, but not to see the salary" [5].This sentence is quite appropriate to describe the current Ah-Qists.

When it comes to submitting to the one-party dictatorship of the Kuomintang, perhaps some people do think and say so, but I think this is their freedom.Since they ate and slept, and their speech and tongue are inherent in them, and they have the so-called brains unique to higher animals, since they have all these conditions, they also have this kind of freedom, this kind of nonsense freedom. .I support Dr. Sun Yat-sen's principles of civil rights, and I will never interfere with their freedom. I am also quite busy and have no time to interfere with them.I don't know what other political groups say about the so-called surrender. When it comes to the Communist Party, it has been an independent political party since the day it was born, and it has never given up on it for a day, half a day, an hour, or a minute. Independence has never yielded to any individual, group or party.It is probably more difficult than heaven to get the Communist Party to surrender, right?

For all the things you said, I believe that most conscientious and sincere Kuomintang members would not say that, because they are all people who know that the war of resistance comes first and unity comes first. As for Mr. Chiang Kai-shek's statement that the Communist Party does not exist, I think this is not true.Because: First, Mr. Jiang is a politician. He not only has political common sense, but also knows more things.Second, Mr. Jiang is the leader of the Anti-Japanese War, he should not say such a thing.Third, if he said such a thing, wouldn't it contradict his previous words? Because he made a statement on September 23, 1937, acknowledging the legal existence of the Communist Party.Therefore, I believe that he should not say such words without common sense, such words that are not conducive to the unity and resistance war, and such words that conflict with what Mr. Jiang said in the past.And if he really said it, then we have the right to ask him to correct it.The ancients said, "A gentleman's faults are like the eclipse of the sun and the moon: everyone sees his faults; what's more, everyone admires him." [6] If Mr. Jiang really said this, it is really his fault. The fault is a fault that all members of the Communist Party cannot bear, and we must ask him to correct it.

When it comes to the legal status of the Communist Party, there is indeed no such thing.The current Chinese government has not implemented Mr. Jiang's statement on September 23, 1937, and has not given legal status to the Communist Party.There is also no legal status given to parties other than the Communist Party.This is a clear proof that China is not yet a constitutional country, nor is it a country with laws.It is for this reason that the people of the whole country now demand the end of political training and the implementation of constitutional government. Speaking of the Shensi-Kansu-Ningxia Border Region, Mr. Chiang himself admitted it several times in front of Comrade Zhou Enlai, the representative of the Communist Party, during the Xi'an Incident in 1936 and in the spring and summer of 1937.In the winter of 1937, it was formally passed by the Executive Yuan meeting of the National Government.As for the fact that it has not been published yet, and officials in the border regions have not yet been appointed, this only proves that the Executive Yuan is too slow in doing things, and the bureaucratic style of the Chinese government is too serious. It is no wonder that the people of the whole country demand a thorough reform of the administrative organization.It would be nice to have a change.

S: China's foreign policy emphasizes that China's struggle is on the side of democracy, and against fascism, China is among the great democracies.What is the basis for saying that China is a democracy? Has China made any progress toward democracy since the war began? Has the population gained any political power? Those areas not occupied by the enemy that are under the direct rule of the central government.) Chairman Mao: There is one basis, which is the name of our country. You see, don’t people from all over the world call us the Republic of China? I think this is the only basis for it.As for the actual basis, there is no such thing.Today's China is an undemocratic country.Dr. Sun Yat-sen's democratic principles have been talked about for decades, but they have not been fulfilled until now. Tens of millions of people across the country are now demanding that they be fulfilled. It is probably possible to fulfill them! By then, there will be one more according to.I would like to add this basis, because it is not only convenient for speaking in diplomacy, but mainly for the convenience of the War of Resistance.

S: Has there been any change in the nature of the central government since the beginning of the war? Is it still primarily a Kuomintang dictatorship? Chairman Mao: There has been a change in certain policies. Instead of fighting a civil war, it has fought Japan. This is a change in policy.But other policies, such as democracy and people's livelihood, have not changed much.Therefore, the whole country is now enthusiastically demanding the implementation of civil rights and people's livelihood.As for the organization of the government, there is no change, it is still the one-party dictatorship of the Kuomintang.This kind of dictatorship has caused dissatisfaction throughout the country, and it must be changed.This time, Chongqing held a political participation meeting. Mr. Jiang said in his opening speech that talents from all sides should be concentrated. The political participation meeting passed a resolution calling for the end of political training and the realization of constitutional government.this is a good news.Now all Chinese people are very anxious. If China does not reform its politics and realize democracy, not only will it not be able to defeat Japan, but it will definitely perish.

S: Has the class basis of the government changed as a result of the war? Chairman Mao: As far as I can see, some changes have taken place.Most of the rich and old along the coast and along the river have become traitors or quasi-traitors. This is the group represented by Wang Jingwei. The government can no longer rely on these classes.The foundation of the anti-Japanese government should and will have to be placed mainly on the middle class and the broad peasant class, because only these classes are the great forces supporting the war of resistance. S: The class base of the government has changed. You say that the government should rely on the middle class and the peasantry. Does this mean that the representatives of these two classes have increased in the government, while the representatives of capitalists have decreased?

Chairman Mao: I mean that it should be placed on these two classes, not that it has already been placed on these classes. I mean the future of the government, not the current situation. S: Has the class represented by the government changed? Mao: Not yet. S: Does the current government represent the landowners and capitalists? Mao: Yes.The present government is still mainly the representatives of the landlords and capitalists, but many representatives of these classes have fled. S: So, what does it mean now? Mao: In terms of anti-Japanese policy, it has been mainly based on the middle class and the broad peasant class, and these classes have been represented, but in terms of democratic people's livelihood policy, it has not yet. S: Because the Communist Party gave up its propaganda emphasizing class conflicts, abolished the Soviets, submitted to the leadership of the Kuomintang and the Kuomintang government, adopted the Three People's Principles, stopped confiscating land from landlords, and stopped organizing activities and propaganda work in Kuomintang areas, Many people are saying that the Chinese Communists are no longer social revolutionaries, but merely reformists—bourgeois in purpose and method.How do you respond to this kind of attack? Do you still maintain that the Chinese revolution is still anti-imperialist and anti-feudal, and that at a certain stage, it may turn into a socialist revolution, and the responsibility of the Communist Party is to lead this socialist revolution? Mao: We will always be social revolutionists, never reformists.Chinese Revolution, there are two articles, the first and the second.Together with the bourgeoisie, the proletariat is carrying out the national-democratic revolution. This is the first part of the article. We are currently working on this article, and we must do it well.However, there is another article in the article, which is its second article, which is that the proletariat leads the peasants to carry out the socialist revolution.We must also do this article, and we must do it well.At present, it is a national democratic revolution, and when it develops to a certain stage, it will transform into a socialist revolution.This possibility is about to become a reality.However, if the first part of the article is not done well, there is no way to start the next part. S: Before or after anti-imperialism and anti-feudalism, is it possible for China to develop into a fascist dictatorship? Has the power of fascist organizations in China increased or weakened? Chairman Mao: In China, there is no possibility of a fascist dictatorship developing.Because half of China has already become a colony, and the other half is not yet in danger of becoming a colony. China's economy is still dominated by a semi-feudal economy.It is for these reasons that those fascist dreamers in China lost their future.As for the fact that in the past a certain organization in China's political organization was reluctantly and inappropriately called a fascist force, well, this kind of force is now not increasing, but decreasing.Obviously, in a country like China, if you want to make so-called fascism, you must smash your own head. S: The Communist Party considers itself to be the main leader of Chinese workers and peasants.In addition to the leadership of the peasants in the border areas and the leadership of the Red Army with some proletarian elements, how does the Communist Party actually determine its leadership over the entire Chinese proletariat (80% to 90% of the industrial proletariat) It is now in the Japanese-occupied area)? How does the Communist Party educate workers and peasants to recognize the anti-Japanese and anti-feudal purpose of the current revolution? Mao: The so-called leadership of the Communist Party over workers and peasants can be divided into two aspects: political leadership and organizational leadership.For example, in the Shensi-Gansu-Ningxia Border Region and the guerrilla areas of the Eighth Route Army in North China, the Communist Party not only leads the workers and peasants in these places politically, but also leads them organizationally.In other areas, where there are Communist Party organizations, if the workers and peasants in those places agree with the Communist Party's ideas, they have accepted the Communist Party's political leadership. If they have already organized, then they also have organizational leadership. To educate workers and peasants, we must use the words of Communist Party members, articles, and mainly the Party's anti-Japanese actions, so that workers and peasants understand the purpose of resisting Japan and opposing traitor forces. S: Did the Anti-Japanese War weaken or strengthen China's feudal elements? Which of the Communist Party's programs is revolutionary and anti-feudal in today's program? Has it ever been recognized anywhere outside the border regions? Unless revolutionary anti-feudalism is realized nationwide at the same time On the one hand, can the war of resistance be won? When it is impossible for the peasants to even organize themselves to resist Japan—not to mention the demand for rural reforms—can the revolutionary anti-feudal task be realized in the middle of the war? Chairman Mao: Here, first of all, we must say that the primary problem at the current stage of the Chinese revolution is resistance to Japan, and the task of fighting feudalism must be subordinated to the primary goal—resisting Japan.The realization of democratic politics, the abolition of exorbitant taxes, the reduction of rent and interest, and the improvement of people's lives proposed by the Communist Party are all anti-feudal programs.Now all over the country, not only among the workers and peasants, but also among the petty bourgeoisie, such as intellectuals, students, young people, cultural people, progressive thinkers, politicians, scientists, and soldiers, a large democratic movement is brewing. The problem is that They are fettered by the old political institutions of the country, so they have not developed and grown. Therefore, reforming the old political institutions is an important task.There is no doubt that resistance to Japan cannot be won without democracy, and resistance to Japan and democracy are two sides of the same coin.There are some people who are in favor of the War of Resistance against Japan but against democracy. These people are actually unwilling to win the War of Resistance against Japan, and they want to lead the War of Resistance to defeat. S: Some capitalists in China have gone to Wang Jingwei. That is to say, China's national bourgeoisie and comprador class are no longer the main part of the government.Under such circumstances, the government has lost its strength to rely on, so why has it represented these classes for a long period of time instead of improving the organizational status of workers and peasants? Mao: This is obstinacy, the class base has changed, but the government organization has not changed.Because these people live there to eat and don't let others in, so it is a process to change the government organization, not an instant thing. Published and printed based on Mao Zedong's revisions preserved in the Central Archives. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] This is part of Mao Zedong's conversation with American journalist Snow. [2] Zhang Qun (1889-1991), a native of Huayang, Sichuan (now Shuangliu).At that time, he was the vice president of the Executive Yuan of the Kuomintang government. [3] Jiang Dingwen, at that time was the commander-in-chief of the 10th theater of the Kuomintang Army and the chairman of the Shaanxi Provincial Government. [4] Chen Lifu, at that time served as Minister of Social Affairs of the Kuomintang Central Committee, Director of the Central Bureau of Investigation and Statistics, and Minister of Education of the Kuomintang Government. [5] See "Mencius King Hui of Liang Part I". [6] See "The Analects of Confucius Zizhang".