Chapter 28 Conversations with business people

(December 8, 1956) Many of the questions you asked today were great and helped me a lot.The problem you want to solve, the government will discuss with you and negotiate a solution.Anything that can be solved must be solved.I have not researched some questions and cannot answer them.You bring up all the problems, the government will study them, and Vice Premier Chen Yun will consider them to solve some problems that can be solved. I think that since the public-private partnership, the business community has made great progress, and we feel that we are more familiar and closer than before.After the public-private partnership, capitalists only have to fix the interest rate problem, and their reputation in the society is also different, and their enthusiasm for learning is very high, learning politics, learning skills, learning technology and management methods.I heard that study classes have been set up in various places. There are hundreds of people in each city in the first session, 9,000 in the first session in Shanghai, and 90,000 in the tenth session. There are large, medium and small capitalists in the study classes.This shows great patriotism and a willingness to do work for the new country.My views on capitalists have improved compared to the past. I used to think that transformation was very difficult, and you yourself may not have expected the change to be so fast. Criticism and self-criticism have also been carried out during the study.When the Federation of Industry and Commerce held a meeting last year, many people conducted self-reflection.Self-criticism is the method of our Communist Party, and later we want to try it in the democratic parties.Now the democratic parties are engaged, and the recent meeting of the Democratic National Construction Association also used this method to carry out criticism and self-criticism.This is the way to solve problems within the people.The Communist Party, the government, the democratic parties, workers, peasants, and business circles, including landlords who have restored their right to vote, all belong to the people.Among the people, if there are shortcomings and problems, we must proceed from unity, use the method of criticism and self-criticism, put forward opinions, raise demands, solve problems, and achieve unity.

We have two revolutions.The bourgeois-democratic revolution is over, the problem is solved.The socialist revolution has now been basically completed, but it has not yet been finalized. There are still many problems in agricultural cooperatives, handicraft cooperatives, and public-private partnerships.In the future, after the socialist transformation is completely completed, there will still be many problems.Problems emerge in endlessly, such as life problems, work problems, problems of an economic nature, problems of a political nature, and problems of a cultural nature.The so-called problems are contradictions, and the world is full of contradictions.The questions you raised today are contradictions, incoordination, and imbalance.

I now turn to the current situation.You see, is socialism going to be successful? Are you pumping water with fifteen buckets, and you are in a panic? I am afraid that socialism will not be possible, right? The socialist camp is going to collapse? , and nothing special.The most important countries in the socialist camp are the Soviet Union and China.It is correct for China to draw closer to the Soviet Union.But now there are still people who doubt this policy, saying that they should not be close together, and think that they can take a middle position and stand between the Soviet Union and the United States as a bridge.We believe that the method of standing in the middle is not good and is not good for the nation.Because there is powerful imperialism on one side, and we China has been oppressed by imperialism for a long time. If we stand between the Soviet Union and the United States, it looks good and independent, but in fact it will not be independent.The United States is not easy to rely on. It may give you something, but not a lot. How can imperialism feed our country? Imperialism oppresses countries in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. For decades or hundreds of years, they have never been fed enough.The armies of imperialist countries burned down our Old Summer Palace and took away our Hong Kong and Taiwan.Hong Kong belongs to China, why did they take it away? Why did the Bandung Conference [1] unite so many Asian and African countries? It is because imperialism invades and oppresses others.These imperialist countries are mainly the United States.It is not appropriate to imagine that there will be benefits from being a bridge between the Soviet Union and the United States.We don’t know how to design large factories yet, so who designs them for us now? For example, factories such as chemical industry, steel, oil refining, tanks, automobiles, and airplanes, who designs them for us? No imperialist country has ever designed them for us.In my country's democratic parties, people without party affiliation, high-level intellectuals, religious circles, business circles, and even a section of the proletariat, there are still people who imagine that the United States will help us and Britain will help us.This is not going to happen.

Is "one-sided" right? We are one-sidedly with the Soviet Union, and this one-sidedness is equal.We believe in Marxism-Leninism, and combine the universal truth of Marxism-Leninism with our actual situation in China, not to copy the experience of the Soviet Union.It is wrong to copy the experience of the Soviet Union.Our transformation of capitalist industry and commerce and the co-operative transformation of agriculture are different from those of the Soviet Union.After the Soviet Union's agricultural collectivization, production decreased in the past few years, while our agricultural production increased after agricultural co-operatives.This year's famine is greater than last year's, but grain production has increased by 23 billion catties compared to last year, and the production of several other cash crops has also increased.This is because our agricultural cooperatives adopt a gradual approach, from mutual aid groups to primary cooperatives, and then to high-level cooperatives, in three steps.

The socialist transformation of capitalist industry and commerce involves everyone.The bourgeoisie as a class was to be eliminated, but everyone was captured.Businessmen are not a burden to the state, but an asset, and they have been and are active.The Chinese bourgeoisie is economically modern, not handicraft.Politically, it calls for opposition to imperialism, which has two sides, and one side calls for revolution.Since the establishment of the people's regime, they have cooperated with the government, and enterprises have entered into public-private partnerships.Having done such good things, it cannot be said that the bourgeoisie is useless to the country, it should be said that they are useful, and very useful.The workers don't know much about this, because they used to fight against the capitalists in the factory. We should make this clear to the workers.Since the upsurge of learning in the business world, if you are willing to learn, workers will change their perception of you.Among capitalists, it is necessary to promote the connection of personal affairs with national affairs, to promote patriotism, and to always think of national affairs.In the countryside, there used to be a slogan "to make a fortune and grow cotton", but everyone just took care of the house. Later, they felt that this slogan was wrong and changed it to "patriotism and prosperity, grow cotton", which connected the family with the country. up.You also need to connect your home with the country, and you also have a part in this country.

The center of your meeting [2] is to discuss your own affairs, and at the same time connect with the affairs of the country.We must promote patriotism.Why engage in public-private partnerships and socialism? It is to facilitate the development of the country. Socialism is more conducive to the development of the country's economy and culture than the private system, and to make the country independent.We are not economically independent. We cannot make large machines, nor can we make sophisticated machines. We can only make machines that are not too big or small.Airplanes are only just beginning to leave the factory, cars are only just beginning to be produced.What country designed it for us? The Soviet Union designed it for us. We should cooperate with the Soviet Union.In our country, there is no anti-Soviet trend like in some countries, neither among the business circles nor among the young college students.Seventy percent of college students are children of the bourgeoisie, and we have full confidence in them if we want to train them to become talents for national construction.They are your children, and solving your problems will affect them as well.As for issues such as admissions, stipends, joining the League and wearing a red scarf, they must be treated equally, only depending on the conditions, not the family background.If the grades are not enough, even the children of workers and peasants cannot be admitted, and the children of capitalists who have enough grades should be admitted.Scholarships should be determined based on academic performance and family circumstances. People from big capitalist families should not be subsidized, while those from small and medium-sized capitalists from poor families should be subsidized.Joining the group and joining the party should be based on whether they have the conditions.

China's national bourgeoisie is a patriotic class, but don't say it is a red bourgeoisie.It is true that the national bourgeoisie has advanced, middle and backward people, of different colors and different states of mind, and has two sides, a progressive side and a backward side.Therefore, there is a task, which is to learn.If you say that everything is good, then it is not in line with the facts, so you should stop studying and become a saint.Don't be satisfied with one person, there are many things in the world that we don't know, we have to study hard.It pays to admit our shortcomings so that we have a task to learn.

Is the Hungarian incident[3] a good thing, or not? Since there are problems, we can’t get out of them, but it’s good if they happen. Pustules always come out.The Hungarian incident was mainly due to the fact that the work of the country was not done well, and the methods of the Soviet Union were imposed on them, and the specific conditions of the country were not taken into account.Therefore, we can draw a lesson that we must act according to the universal truth of Marxism-Leninism and in light of the specific conditions of our country.We have raised the slogan of learning from the advanced experience of the Soviet Union, but we have never raised the slogan of learning from their backward experience.Generally speaking, China is good politically, the socialist camp is also good, and the Hungarian incident has basically been resolved.Of course, there will be troubles in the world, and troubles will happen in China.But don’t think that once Gao Gang[4] came out, Beria[5] came out, Stalin made a mistake, it would be a catastrophe, and he would not be able to sleep.You are all familiar with the character of our government. It handles affairs in consultation with the people, in consultation with workers, peasants, capitalists, and democratic parties. You can call it a consultation government.We don't put on a serious face to teach people, and we don't give him a stick if he makes a wrong opinion, so that his head is down and his feet are upside down.We are called the People's Government, you can speak up if you have something to say, and you will not use excuses to punish people.

I come back to the economic issue.What you are concerned about is how to solve the problems of large, medium and small capitalists, and how to solve the problem of fixed interest[6].Large, medium and small should be divided into classes.I would like to make a point now, whether it is right or not, please consider it.I advocate that 90% of small and medium-sized capitalists should not be classified as bourgeoisie, and those whose fixed interest is only enough to buy a few packs of cigarettes should be called petty bourgeois.Capital agents also belong to the scope of the petty bourgeoisie, called the upper petty bourgeoisie.We have done this in the past. During the land reform, there were small landlords, and we called them small land renters, not landlords.If the management agent or the capitalist with very little fixed interest is unwilling to do it and needs labor insurance, they can be allocated, but not this year, but next year or the year after, so that 90% of the people do not want fixed interest, so that the hundred Ten-tenths of the fixed-rate people can't make it through.Please consider whether such a suggestion can be made, and the government should also consider it.Small and medium-sized capitalists will give up fixed interest if they are willing to give up, and let him take it if they are not willing to give up.

Everyone is very concerned about the timing of fixed interest rates.There is a principle in solving this problem, which is to solve the problem without harming the interests of capitalists, especially the interests of big capitalists.Are the big capitalists more important to the national economy and the people's livelihood, or are the small and medium-sized capitalists more important to the national economy and the people's livelihood? There are many small and medium-sized capitalists, accounting for 90% of the total number of capitalists, but they have little effect on the country's economic life and a great effect on the country's economic life. Yes, they are still big capitalists.You will say that I take care of the big capitalists and not the small and medium-sized capitalists, which is right opportunism.It’s not that we don’t take care of the small and medium-sized capitalists. There are a lot of small and medium-sized capitalists.There used to be a small and medium-sized line in our Party, and it should be admitted that the small- and medium-sized line is wrong.Care must be taken of the small and medium-sized capitalists, and now we are dealing with them within the scope of the petty bourgeoisie.Peasants are the petty bourgeoisie, the petty bourgeoisie in the countryside, and there are petty bourgeoisie in the cities, including small and medium-sized capitalists.In terms of public-private partnerships and nationalization, big capitalists are of greater significance to the country.The so-called big is also a comparative term, not to say that small and medium-sized capitalists are meaningless.We cannot live without small and medium-sized capitalists and handicrafts.Without farmers we would have nothing to eat.If we don’t take good care of the big capitalists, 90% of the small and medium-sized capitalists will take off their hats, and the remaining 10% of the big capitalists will feel disgraced, saying that everyone else is red, and we It's still white, which doesn't look good.We cannot do this.

The Central Committee of the Communist Party of China has discussed how long the interest rate will be fixed, and it is considered that the time is too short to be good, and the redemption must be a real redemption, not a deception.It doesn't cost much.Some people ask how many years are left? Everyone is very concerned.We use a seven-year period, that is, this year and next year plus the second five-year plan for a total of seven years.This meaning is already contained in the eight major documents, and I will discuss it with you now.Workers may object, and small and medium-sized capitalists may also object.The workers will say that it is too cheap for the capitalists. According to the workers' thinking, it is best to cancel the fixed interest rate immediately.Small and medium-sized capitalists think that one or two years is enough, why it takes so long.So there are two conflicts, the first is the workers, and the second is the small and medium-sized capitalists who account for 90%.This requires persuasion.If you want to redeem it, you must redeem it to the end, not half redeeming it and half confiscating it.The capital of the Chinese national bourgeoisie is actually not big, and the industrial private equity capital is only 1.7 billion yuan, equivalent to less than 700 million U.S. dollars, which is only a little.How can our country not be bullied? There are reasons for imperialism to bully us. There is only so much national capital.If you want to redeem it, you can redeem it all. Don't save a few dollars, don't be anticlimactic, and have a beginning but never an end.It is in the interest of the country as a whole to persuade the workers not to harm the interests of the big capitalists.I said that it can be delayed until the third five-year plan. What do you think? Seven years is a tiger's head and a tiger's body. If the problem has not been solved, it can be extended a little longer.There are many small and medium-sized capitalists, and we should help them solve their problems.The number of big capitalists is small, but their capital is large, and their impact on the country is greater than that of small and medium-sized capitalists. Therefore, the small and medium-sized line is wrong, and it should be the big, medium, and small line.Small and medium-sized capitalists make up the majority of the representatives at the General Assembly of the Federation of Industry and Commerce. We must explain to them not to harm the interests of the big capitalists. Damage to their interests is not necessarily beneficial to workers, farmers, and small and medium-sized businessmen.The interest of small and medium-sized capitalists is to take off their hats as soon as possible, while the interest of large capitalists is to prolong the fixed interest period.They can do their own things, and those who want to take off their hats can take them off early, and they can live like a tiger for seven years, and those who are willing to take fixed interest can continue to take it.Is it okay to do this? There is no legal regulation now, and everyone can discuss it. If the problem cannot be solved in seven years, it is okay to delay it. We must make it clear to the workers that our adoption of this policy is beneficial to the entire nation, workers, peasants, and small and medium-sized businessmen, and they may not understand this benefit for a while.Seventy percent of college students are sons of the bourgeoisie. They do not want inheritance rights, but they will be satisfied with how the government treats capitalists.Democratic parties, people without party affiliation, upper-level leaders of ethnic minorities, and religious circles will also be satisfied.Cancel the fixed rate too quickly and they won't be happy.There are also foreigners. When they come to China, they will come to Shanghai to see Mr. Rong Yiren[7], to see how many cars he has, one or two, and whether there is a piano in the house.After reading it, a French capitalist said that as long as the French Communist Party does this, he will feel at ease.When we do this, it also has a great impact on Asian and African countries and some countries in Europe.So, there is no benefit in rushing to get rid of fixed rates.In fact, there is not much money for fixed interest, only 125 million yuan a year, and some people say that it is only 110 million yuan, and the total in seven years is less than 800 million yuan.This money was not given to the Japanese or Americans, but to the Chinese.In short, the fat water has not fallen into the field of outsiders, it is "a well-deserved"[8], it is the country's purchasing power, it is also the target of public bond sales, and it can be used to open factories. It can be considered from various aspects.We must do things "in line with the laws of nature, in line with human feelings, in line with the trend of the world, and in line with the needs of the people, and if we act according to the will of the prophets, we will never fail." [9] This is a great revolutionary Mr. Sun Yat-sen said.Our revolution is to inherit the work of Dr. Sun Yat-sen, complete the bourgeois-democratic revolution, and then complete the socialist revolution.A revolution is to clear the way for construction.A revolution changes the relations of production and the superstructure, the economic system, the superstructure of the government, ideology, law, politics, culture, and art, but the purpose is not to establish a new government or a new production relationship. , but in the development of production.In seven years we have developed some, but very little.Now we only have more than 4 million tons of steel, next year we will have 5 million tons, and in five years we will only have more than 10 million tons of steel.Our country has a population of 600 million, so this steel is nothing. Compared with Japan and France, it can surpass them. It will take 40 to 50 years to catch up with the 100 million tons of steel in the United States.Please turn your goals to this aspect.In the past, the bourgeois-democratic revolution was carried out, and now the socialist revolution is carried out. The Federation of Industry and Commerce holds meetings, and the Democratic Construction Association holds meetings. Everyone learns. What is the purpose? It is to achieve this goal.In addition to steel, we need other things. We also need to run schools. The people of the whole country must graduate from junior high school at least. Know geography.All our work is to achieve this goal.I hope that all friends will guide the more than 1,000 people who participated in the meeting to focus on production.It will take decades for us to turn around in production, science, and culture, so we must unite everyone who can be united. Published based on the transcript of the conversation kept by the Central Archives. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] Bandung Conference, see note [2] on page 148 of this volume. [2] Refers to the Second Member Congress of the All-China Federation of Industry and Commerce held in Beijing from December 10 to 23, 1956. [3] The Hungarian incident refers to the anti-government political incidents in Hungary from October to November 1956. [4] Gao Gang, see note [7] on page 45 of this volume. [5] Beria (1899-1953), served as member of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the CPSU, first vice-chairman of the Soviet Council of Ministers and Minister of the Interior.In July 1953, the Plenary Session of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union found him guilty of "anti-party and treason" and decided to expel him from the party.In December, the Special Tribunal of the Supreme Court of the Soviet Union tried the Beria case in secret, and issued the "Notice of the Special Court of the Supreme Court of the Soviet Union on the Trial of Beria and Others' Treason Cases."Beria was sentenced to death. [6] Fixed interest, see note [6] on page 172 of this volume. [7] Rong Yiren, born in 1916, is from Wuxi, Jiangsu.At that time, he was the general manager of the General Management Office of Shanghai Shenxin Textile Printing and Dyeing Company. [8] Dian published "Shuo Yuan Zhigong": "The king of Chu left his bow when he was hunting, and asked for it from left and right. The king said: 'Stop! Chu people left their bows, and Chu people got it, so why ask for it?' " [9] See Sun Yat-sen's "Founding Strategy" and "The Complete Works of Sun Yat-sen" Volume 6, Zhonghua Book Company 1985 edition, p. 228).