Chapter 57 Conversation with Eugene, Soviet Ambassador to China[1]

(July 22, 1958) Since you left yesterday, I haven't been able to sleep or eat.I invite you to talk about it today. As a doctor, you can eat and sleep in the afternoon.You are lucky to be able to eat and sleep. Let's get down to business and blow about the issues from yesterday's conversation.Just blow in this room! No tension between us.Of our ten fingers, nine are the same and one is different.I have said this question two or three times, have you forgotten? I thought about yesterday's question again. I may have misunderstood, or I may be right, and it can be resolved after debate.It appears that the request[2] for nuclear submarines proposed by the Navy can be withdrawn.I didn’t have the impression of this question. I only found out after asking them that there are some enthusiastic people in the Navy Command, that is, Soviet advisers.

The naval nuclear submarine is a cutting-edge science with secrets. The Chinese are sloppy, and if it is given to us, problems may occur. Soviet comrades have been victorious for forty years and have experience.We have only been successful for eight years, and we have no experience, so you only raised the issue of joint ventures.The issue of ownership has been mentioned a long time ago, and Lenin mentioned the concession system[3], but that was for capitalists. There are still capitalists in China, but the country is led by the Communist Party.You just don't trust the Chinese, only the Russians.The Russians are of the upper class, and the Chinese are of the lower class, and they are careless. That's why the problem of joint ventures arose.If we want to cooperate, we can cooperate in everything, such as land, sea, air force, industry, agriculture, culture, and education. Is it possible? Or give you the coastline of more than 10,000 kilometers, and we will only engage in guerrillas.You have only developed a little atomic energy, so you need to control it, and you need the right to lease it.Besides, what reason is there?

You once controlled Lushun and Dalian, and then left.Why control? Because it was the Kuomintang's China at that time.Later, you left automatically, because it is China led by the Communist Party. Under the pressure of Stalin, two spheres of influence and four joint ventures in Northeast China and Xinjiang were established[4].Later, Comrade Khrushchev[5] proposed to cancel it, and we thank him. You have always distrusted the Chinese, and Stalin did not believe it.The Chinese are regarded as the second Tito[6], a backward nation.You say that Europeans look down on Russians, but I think some Russians look down on Chinese.

At the most critical juncture, Stalin refused to allow our revolution and opposed our revolution.On this point, he made a big mistake, the same as Zinoviev[7]. Also, we are not satisfied with Mikoyan [8].He puts on his old status and regards us as his sons.He put on airs, but he was arrogant.When he first came to Xibaipo in 1949, he was very airy, and he came a few times later, and he was always like this.Every time he came, he would persuade me to go to Moscow. What would I do? He said that there would always be something to do.Later, it was Comrade Khrushchev who had a problem and went to a meeting to make a document.

To celebrate the fortieth anniversary of the October Revolution is our common cause.I said at the time that the so-called fraternal party was just a verbal talk, but it was actually a father-son party, a cat-and-mouse party.I have discussed this with Khrushchev and other comrades on a small scale.They admit it.This father-son relationship is not European, but Asian.Bulganin, Mikoyan, Kuxinin, Suslov[9] and others were present at that time, and you (referring to Eugene)? In China, there were me and Deng Xiaoping[10]. I was dissatisfied with Mikoyan's speech at our Eighth National Congress[11], and I deliberately did not attend that day to protest.Many delegates are not satisfied, you don't know.He pretended to be a father, saying that China is the son of Russia.

China has its own revolutionary tradition, but the Chinese revolution could not have won without the October Revolution, nor could it have won without Marxism-Leninism. We must learn from the experience of the Soviet Union.Universal truths must be observed, these are the nine articles written in the "Moscow Declaration" [12].We must learn from all experiences, both the correct experience and the wrong experience.The wrong experience is: Stalin's metaphysics and dogmatism.He is not entirely metaphysics, there is a part of dialectics, but most of it is metaphysics.You call it the cult of personality, and it is one thing.Stalin loved to put on airs.

We support the Soviet Union, but not the wrong stuff.With regard to the issue of peaceful transition, we did not discuss it openly, nor did it appear in the newspapers.We are very cautious, and we have not criticized you publicly, and have adopted the method of internal dialogue.I talked to you before I went to Moscow.During his stay in Moscow, Comrade Deng Xiaoping discussed the five points[13].In the future, we do not plan to talk about it publicly, because it will be detrimental to Comrade Khrushchev, and his leadership should be consolidated.We don't talk about it because our opinions are not the truth.

In state relations, our two countries are united.This is acknowledged even by our enemies, and has remained so until now.As long as it is unfavorable to the Soviet Union, we are against it.We oppose imperialist and revisionist attacks on the Soviet Union on major issues.The Soviet Union did the same. When did the Soviets trust the Chinese? It started with the Korean War.From that time on, the two countries began to close together, and there were only one hundred and fifty-six items [14].When Stalin was alive, there were one hundred and forty-one items, and Comrade Khrushchev added many items later.

We have no secrets from you.You all know about our military, politics, economy, and culture. You have more than a thousand experts working here.We believe in you because you are a socialist country and descendants of Lenin. But in our relationship, there were also problems, mainly with Stalin.There are three things: first, the Wang Ming line twice [15].Wang Ming is a descendant of Stalin.Second, don't want our revolution, oppose our revolution.The Third International [16] has been disbanded, and it has issued an order saying that if you do not make peace with Chiang Kai-shek and start a civil war, the Chinese nation is in danger of perishing.Yet we did not perish.Thirdly, when I first went to Moscow, Stalin, Molotov, Beria [17] attacked me.

Why did I ask Stalin to send a scholar to read my article? Is it because I have no confidence that I even invite you to read the article? Why do I have nothing to do? No, I invite you to come to China to see, China is the real Marx Marxism, or half-truth and half-false Marxism. You said good things about us after you went back.The first sentence you said to Stalin was, "The Chinese are true Marxists."But Stalin was still skeptical.It was only during the Korean War that his views were changed, and the fraternal parties in Eastern Europe and other countries were suspicious of us. This kind of suspicion is inevitable: "First, you are against Wang Ming; second, you don't want revolution, you must make revolution; third, when you go to Moscow to ask Stalin to sign a treaty and take back the middle and long roads, you are so arrogant." , Kovalev [18] entertained me, and Federline [19] served as an interpreter.I lost my temper and slapped the table.I said, I have three tasks here: one, eat; two, sleep; three, shit.

There was a Soviet consultant at the Military Academy. When talking about war examples, he was only allowed to talk about the Soviet Union, not China, or the Korean War. He was only allowed to talk about the top ten blows of the Soviet army. Let us talk about it ourselves! He won't even let us talk about it ourselves.We have fought for twenty-two years! We have fought in Korea for three years! Please collect this material from the Military Commission and give it to Comrade Eugene if he wants it. We did not mention some things, for fear of affecting Sino-Soviet relations, especially during the events of Poland and Hungary.At that time, Poland wanted to drive away your experts. Comrade Liu Shaoqi suggested that you withdraw some of them in Moscow. When you accepted, the Poles were happy and said that they were free.At that time, we could not ask questions of experts, lest you suspect that we would use this opportunity to drive away experts.We will not rush, even if there are ten Poland rushing, we will not rush.We need the help of the Soviet Union. I persuaded the Poles to learn from the Soviet Union, and advised them to put forward the slogan of learning from the Soviet Union after anti-dogmatism.Who benefits from learning from the Soviet Union? Is it beneficial to the Soviet Union or is it beneficial to Poland? This is first of all beneficial to Poland. We must learn from the Soviet Union, but we must first consider our own experience and focus on our own experience. Some Soviet advisers can be appointed for a certain period of time.For example, the chief advisers in the military and public security departments of our country have never had a deadline, and they have changed back and forth without notifying us or asking for our opinions.For example, send an ambassador. You can send another person after Eugene left. If you don’t discuss with us, can you do it? This approach is wrong.The consultant you sent to our public security department, sitting there, if the Chinese don't tell him the situation, what can he know? I urge you to go to various provinces, contact the people, and learn more about the situation.I've talked to you a thousand times, if not ten thousand times. Most of the Soviet experts are basically good, and some have some shortcomings.We also had shortcomings in the past, and we did not take the initiative to introduce the situation to the Soviet comrades.Now is the time to overcome these shortcomings and adopt a positive attitude.This time, I will introduce China's general line to them. If it fails once, it will be done twice; These words are all caused by the establishment of nuclear submarine "cooperatives".Now we have decided not to engage in nuclear submarines and withdraw our request.Otherwise, the entire coastline will be handed over to you, and the past Lushun and Dalian will be expanded.But don't mix it up, you do yours, we do ours.We will always have our own fleet.It's not easy to handle two in command. The situation is different when we start a war. Your army can come to us, and our army can also come to you.If you fight here, your army should also obey our command.If we fight against you, if our army is smaller than yours, we should follow your command. These words of mine are very unpleasant. You can say that I am a nationalist, and a second Tito has appeared.If you say this, I can say that you have extended Russian nationalism to the shores of China. It was Comrade Khrushchev who canceled the four joint ventures and the Lushun base.When Stalin was alive, he wanted to set up a canning factory here.I replied to him, you give us equipment, help us build, and give you all the products.Comrade Khrushchev praised me for my good answer.But why are you setting up a naval "cooperative" now? You propose to set up a naval "cooperative". How do you speak to the whole world? How do you speak to the Chinese people? You can train the Chinese and fight against imperialism, and you can serve as advisors.Otherwise, Lushun, not only Lushun, can be leased to you for ninety-nine years.There is a problem of ownership in the establishment of "cooperatives". You proposed that both parties should each hold 50%.You made me so angry that I didn't sleep all night yesterday.They (referring to other Chinese leaders present here) are not angry, but I am alone.If I make a mistake, it's me alone. (Zhou Enlai: This is the unanimous opinion of our Politburo.) If it didn't work out this time, we can talk again, and we can talk to you once a day.No, I can go to Moscow to talk with Comrade Khrushchev, or invite Comrade Khrushchev to come to Beijing to discuss all issues clearly. (Peng Dehuai: Comrade Malinovsky, Minister of Defense of the Soviet Union, sent me a telegram this year, requesting the construction of a long-wave radar observation station on the coast of China to command the submarine fleet in the Pacific Ocean. The cost is 110 million rubles. The Soviet Union paid 70 million, and China 40 million.) This problem is the same as setting up a naval "cooperative". It cannot be explained to the people, and it is politically disadvantageous to talk about it abroad. (Peng: Petroshevsky[20] is also very rough in style. He is very dissatisfied with our army building principles and that we do not adopt Soviet military regulations in some places. At an enlarged meeting of the Military Commission, Fujian Comrade Ye Fei[21] of the military region said that Fujian is full of mountains, and the Soviet military training regulations are not fully applicable, because the Soviet military regulations are mainly formulated according to the conditions of the plains. Petroshevsky was very dissatisfied when he heard that. Said: "You have insulted the great military science created by the great Stalin." When he said this, the atmosphere in the meeting was very tense.) Some of the above things have been discussed in the past, and some have not.You help us so much, and we speak ill of you, and it may make you sad.Our relationship is like the relationship between a professor and a student.Professors may have shortcomings. Do students want to raise their opinions? They should mention that this is not to drive the professor away, the professor is still a good professor. Just help us build nuclear submarines! You can be consultants.Why raise the issue of 50/50 ownership? This is a political issue.We plan to build two or three hundred such submarines. When it comes to political conditions, even half a finger is not enough.You can tell Comrade Khrushchev that if we talk about conditions, neither of us need to talk about them.If he agrees, he will come, if he disagrees, he will not come, there is nothing to talk about, and the condition of having half a little finger is not acceptable. On this issue, we can live without aid for ten thousand years.However, cooperation in other areas can still be carried out, and there will be no falling out.We are still unanimously supporting the Soviet Union.We can fight in the house. I talked with Comrade Khrushchev when I was in Moscow, and you may not necessarily meet all our demands.If you don't give aid, you can force us to work hard on our own.Satisfying all requirements is not good for us. Political cooperation is important.In politics, it is difficult for you to dismantle your platform, and it is difficult for us to dismantle our platform. In wartime, you can use all our military bases and airports, and you can come to any place.We can also go to your place, your Vladivostok.When the war is over, come back.Regarding this point, a wartime agreement can be made first, and it should be made in advance instead of waiting until the war starts.It must also be stipulated in the agreement that we can also go to your place, even if we do not go, it must be stipulated in this way, because this is a matter of equality.Normally, this is not acceptable.Usually you help us build bases and build our army. Even when Stalin was alive, we did not engage in naval "cooperatives".I also quarreled with him in Moscow! Comrade Khrushchev canceled the "cooperatives"[22] and built trust.This time the issue of ownership is raised, something reminds me of Stalin again.Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but let me be clear. You said yesterday that your conditions are not good, nuclear submarines cannot fully exert their power and have no future, while China's conditions are good, with a long coastline, and so on.You go out to the ocean from Vladivostok via Sakhalin Island and Kuril Islands, the conditions are very good! What you say offends me.Please tell Comrade Khrushchev the same way, you can say what I say, don't whitewash it for me, so that he can listen comfortably.He criticized Stalin, and now he is doing Stalin's things again. There are still differences.Some of ours you disagree with; some of yours we disagree with.For example, you are so satisfied with our "contradictions among the people" and "a hundred flowers bloom"! Stalin supported Wang Ming's line and caused our revolutionary forces to lose more than 90 percent.When the revolution was at a critical moment, he refused to allow our revolution and opposed our revolution.After the victory of the revolution, he did not trust us again.He boasted about himself, saying that China's victory was achieved under the guidance of his theories.We must completely break the superstition about him.Before I die, I will definitely write an article about what Stalin did to China, and prepare to publish it ten thousand years later. (Eugene: Regarding the various policies of the CCP, the attitude of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union is: how to solve China's problems is a matter for the Chinese comrades themselves, because they know the situation best. At the same time, we believe that talking about a great party like the CCP Whether the policy is right or not, is flippant and arrogant.) It can only be said to be basically correct.I myself have made mistakes, and due to my mistakes, I have also lost battles in wars, such as the four battles of Changsha and Tucheng.I'd be happy if I was basically right.I can only say that I am basically right is close to reality. The issue of building a submarine fleet is a matter of policy: whether we should engage you in helping us or establish a "cooperative", this must be decided in China.Comrade Khrushchev can also come, because I have already been to him. Don't be superstitious about anything.For example, one of your experts, according to a book by an academician, said that our coal in Shanxi cannot be coked.This is the end, we have no coking coal, because Shanxi has the most coal! Comrade Xining, a Soviet expert who worked on the Yangtze River Bridge, is a good comrade.His method of building bridges has never been used in your country.Don't let him do the big ones, let him do the medium-sized ones! Don't let him do the medium-sized ones, let him build the small ones! Don't let him do the small ones either.However, when he came to us to talk about it, it made sense.Anyway, we don't know anything, so we asked him to do it! As a result, the experiment was successful, and it became the first-class scientific work in the world. I have never met Comrade Xining.I talked with many leading comrades who built the Yangtze River Bridge, and they unanimously reflected: Xining is a good comrade, he personally participates in all work, has a good working method, and does everything with Chinese comrades.The bridge was repaired, and the Chinese comrades learned a lot.Whoever among you knows him, give him my regards. Don't create an atmosphere of tension among the experts, in the relationship between the two parties and the two countries, I don't mean that.Our cooperation is comprehensive and good.You have to make it clear to the staff and experts at the embassy, ​​don't say that Comrade Mao Zedong raised his opinion, it's a big deal. Some issues have long been wanted to be discussed, but the situation in the past was not good, and the events in Poland and Hungary occurred, and you have political difficulties, so it is not suitable for you to discuss them.For example, on the issue of experts, it was difficult for us to discuss it at that time. Stalin was also very good later, China and the Soviet Union signed a treaty[23], helped the Korean War[24], and engaged in one hundred and forty-one items.Of course, this is not all his personal achievements, but the achievements of the Central Committee of the CPSU.Therefore, we do not emphasize Stalin's mistakes. According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Selected Works" published in 1994 by Central Literature Publishing House and World Knowledge Publishing House. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] This is the main part of the conversation between Mao Zedong and the Soviet ambassador to China Yudin.On July 21, 1958, Yudin conveyed to Mao Zedong the proposal of Khrushchev and the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee on the establishment of a joint nuclear submarine fleet between the Soviet Union and China, and hoped that Zhou Enlai and Peng Dehuai would go to Moscow for specific discussions .Mao Zedong immediately said: "First of all, we must clarify the policy: Is it us to do it, and you help? Or can we only do it together, and if you don't do it, you won't help, or you force us to do it together?" [2] On June 28, 1958, the Chinese side requested the Soviet Union to provide technical assistance for the development of Chinese naval nuclear submarines based on the opinion of the Soviet military adviser.On July 21 of the same year, Yudin, the Soviet ambassador to China, conveyed to Mao Zedong the proposal of Khrushchev and the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee on the establishment of a joint nuclear submarine fleet between the Soviet Union and China.Since this proposal by the Soviet side undermined China's sovereignty, the Chinese side withdrew its request for technical assistance from the Soviet side on the development of nuclear submarines. [3] Concession system is a form of state capitalism adopted by the Soviet Russian government during the transition period from capitalism to socialism.Lenin said in his article "On Grain Taxes" when talking about the concession system: "What is the concession under the Soviet system? This is the Soviet power, that is, the state power of the proletariat. The lessee is the capitalist. He operates in a capitalist manner for profit, and he agrees to enter into a contract with the proletarian power for the sake of To obtain extra profits above ordinary profits, or to obtain raw materials that are otherwise unobtainable or extremely difficult to obtain. The benefit obtained by the Soviet power is the development of productive forces, that is, the increase in the quantity of products immediately or in the shortest period." "Rent Compared with other forms of state capitalism in the Soviet system, this kind of state capitalism is probably the simplest, most obvious, clear and self-evident form. Here, we have directly concluded a formal agreement with the most civilized and advanced Western European capitalism. Written contracts. We know exactly what we gain and lose, our rights and obligations, we know exactly the duration of the concession, and if the contract stipulates a right to early redemption, we also know exactly the conditions for early redemption. We give world capitalism certain 'Tributes' from them, 'redemption' from them in some respects, thereby immediately and to some extent strengthening the position of Soviet power and improving the conditions of our business." (Selected Works of Lenin, Vol. 4, People's Press 1995 edition, pages 505, 506) [4] In March 1950 and July 1951, the governments of China and the Soviet Union signed four agreements on the establishment of Sino-Soviet joint-stock companies to establish civil airlines, oil companies, non-ferrous metals and Rare metal companies and shipbuilding companies.The establishment of these four joint ventures played a positive role in China's economic construction at that time.However, because the Soviet side attempted to turn the joint venture into an economic entity independent of China's sovereignty, it damaged China's rights and interests in some ways.On October 12, 1954, the governments of China and the Soviet Union signed a joint communiqué, in which the Soviet side promised to sell the Soviet shares in the four Sino-Soviet joint-stock companies to China before January 1, 1955.After the Soviet share transfer, the Sino-Soviet civil aviation company was taken over by the Civil Aviation Administration of China, and the remaining three companies were renamed Xinjiang Oil Company, Xinjiang Nonferrous Metals Company and Dalian Shipyard respectively. [5] Khrushchev was the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union at that time. [6] Tito, see note [20] on page 48 of this volume. [7] Zinoviev (1883-1936), served as a member of the Political Bureau of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party (Bolsheviks) on the eve of the October Revolution.He was severely criticized by Lenin for his opposition to holding an armed uprising and leaking the uprising plan.He later served as Chairman of the Petrograd Soviet and Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Communist International.He was expelled from the party in 1927.In 1936, he was executed during the "elimination of counter-revolutionaries". [8] Mikoyan (1895-1978), was a member of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and Vice-Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union. [9] Bulganin (1895-1975), in 1957, he was the Chairman of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, a member of the First Presidium, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union.Ku Shining (18811-1964), member of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and secretary of the Central Secretariat of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1957.Suslov (1902-1982), member of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and secretary of the Central Secretariat in 1957. [10] From November 2 to 21, 1957, Mao Zedong led a Chinese party and government delegation to visit the Soviet Union to attend the 40th Anniversary Celebration of the October Revolution in the Soviet Union and the Moscow Conference of the Communist Workers' Parties of various countries.Deng Xiaoping was a member of the delegation and General Secretary of the CPC Central Committee at the time. [11] The Eighth National Congress, the Eighth National Congress of the Communist Party of China.See note [2] on page 98 of this volume. [12] "Moscow Declaration" refers to the "Declaration of the Congress of Communist Party and Worker's Parties of Socialist Countries" adopted by the Congress of Communist Party and Worker's Parties of Socialist Countries held in Moscow from November 14 to 16, 1957 ".In this "Declaration", nine common laws that are generally applicable to all countries that have taken the road to socialism are put forward, namely: the working class with the Marxist-Leninist party at its core leads the working masses to carry out one form or another the establishment of a proletarian dictatorship in one form or another; the establishment of an alliance between the proletariat and the basic masses of the peasantry and other working strata; the abolition of capitalist ownership of the basic means of production and the establishment of public ownership of the basic means of production; the gradual realization of agricultural develop the national economy in a planned way so as to build socialism and communism and improve the living standards of the working people; carry out a socialist revolution in the field of ideology and culture to create a strong and powerful society loyal to the working class, the working people and the cause of socialism. Intellectuals; eliminate national oppression, establish equality and brotherhood among all nationalities; defend the fruits of socialism from being invaded by enemies at home and abroad; implement proletarian internationalism and unite with the working class of all countries. [13] During the Moscow Conference in 1957, Deng Xiaoping of the CCP delegation systematically explained to the Central Committee of the CPSU the views of the Chinese Communist Party on the issue of the transition from capitalism to socialism on November 10, and proposed to the Central Committee of the CPSU "Outline of Opinions on Peaceful Transition Issues", the outline has five main contents. [14] Refers to the 156 large and medium-sized industrial projects aided by the Soviet Union during the period of my country's first five-year plan.These construction projects were determined in batches after repeated negotiations between the Chinese and Soviet governments from 1950 to 1954, and were later adjusted to 154 projects.In 1960, due to the unilateral abandonment of the agreement by the Soviet Union, 150 projects were actually under construction. [15] Refers to Wang Ming's "left" adventurism error and Wang Ming's right opportunism error.See note [18] on page 47 and note [19] on page 48 of this volume. [16] The Third International, namely the Communist International, see note [7] on page 57 of this volume. [17] Molotov (1890-1986), in 1949 he was a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and vice-chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union.Beria, member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1949 and vice chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Soviet Union. [18] Kovalev, who accompanied Mao Zedong to visit the Soviet Union in December 1949, was the head of the Soviet experts stationed in China at that time. [19] Federin, born in 1912, Soviet Sinologist.Served as a Chinese translator in the Soviet diplomatic service for a long time, and once served as the cultural counselor of the Soviet embassy in China. [20] Petroshevsky, who was sent by the Soviet government to serve as the general military adviser in China. [21] Ye Fei (1914-1999), a native of Nan'an, Fujian.From August 1956 to October 1957, he served as commander and political commissar of the Fuzhou Military Region. [22] Refers to the civil airlines, oil companies, non-ferrous and rare metal companies and shipbuilding companies jointly established by China and the Soviet Union in the early days of the founding of the People's Republic of China. [23] Refers to the "Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance" signed in Moscow on February 14, 1950, see note [5] on page 320 of this volume. [24] Korean War, see note [2] on page 66 of this volume.