Chapter 14 Chairman Mao

... Liang: As for Chairman Mao, I have had a lot of contact with him. He is a man of great talent and broad vision, which is very remarkable.And he has nothing to rely on, he is not a powerful person, he is always single.I have been to Shaoshan, his hometown, twice. I have visited the places where he studied, and we have seen the people in his hometown where he studied.At the age of fifteen or six, he was still farming in the village. It is really amazing that such a naked person can actually create a new China. But because of this situation, there would be no Communist Party without Mao Zedong, and there would be no New China without the Communist Party, so the Party relies on him, and everyone relies on the Party. Therefore, he was originally alone, but he has become the highest authority, and everything is in his hands in hand.It won't work in old age, and people will become confused when they reach old age.At this time, others cannot save him, because his prestige is too high.Okay now, now everyone can publicly comment on Mao.The "Gang of Four" was actually induced by him.Now it is said that the "Gang of Four" will be tried publicly.Now we are trying our best to correct it, we need collective leadership, and we don't want to make individual mistakes. We are trying our best to correct past mistakes.It can be said that for many years, it has been relatively stable, not turbulent. Especially the turmoil in 1966 was relatively stable, stable, united, and moving forward. This is the current situation.Looking at it this way, especially this year, there will be a meeting in August this year, and the government will be reorganized. I am afraid that the situation after the reorganization will be better than in the past few decades.On the one hand, Hua Guofeng is very ordinary and does things very smoothly, but on the other hand he is very unusual. He came up slowly from the grassroots and from the countryside. He is very proper and humble, so Deng Xiaoping took the lead in many things. In fact, everyone was there to help him.So according to my personal opinion, I think the current situation in China is very optimistic, even more optimistic than in the past.

Ai: Compared with the situation 50 years ago, what has been improved at most?That is to say, which aspect is better than 50 years ago. Liang: It’s still about changes in the government, the party, and society.In the past, the leadership of the party was too strong, and almost the general society was too passive. Now it has gradually changed, and now the bottom is slowly rising.Now they have two slogans, one called democracy and the other called rule of law.In the past there was no rule of law. (Laughs) What Chairman Mao said was the rule of law. Everyone was passive. He was almost the only one who moved there (laughs). Everyone followed and supported him.It has changed now, and now there is a legal system. In factories, the workshop directors are elected by the people. In rural communes, the communes have team leaders, production team leaders, and team leaders. They are all elected. (Ai: Even the units at the grassroots level...) They are all healthy.That's the two sentences, one is that there is a more legal system, and the other is that it is more democratic, and the power of democracy is slowly rising. This is not empty talk, so I am very optimistic when talking about these places.

Ai: In your opinion, the current plan implemented by the government, modernization, democratization, legalization, the plan to be realized now, is the closest to the plan advocated by any predecessor in the past 100 years?There are many people, the government, and you yourself... Liang: The original ideals and slogans were just ideals and slogans.But now, it’s different than before. Instead of staying on the ideals and slogans, it’s actually getting closer.Especially looking at it now, there is an opportunity to move forward. There was no such opportunity in the past. There was turmoil in the past. Even when the turmoil was not severe, there was a lack of democracy and the legal system. Now compare the tracks.

Ai: The content of the current plan I mentioned, or the content of the plan proposed by people before the liberation in the past—the one you advocated in the past—which one is closer and the same as the one that is being implemented now? The 20s, 30s, 40s... Liang: What was said in the past was empty talk. Ai: Is it all empty talk?In your opinion, for example, the rural construction movement, you yourself initiated this movement, is there anything similar to the current situation? Liang: Yes. Ai: Be more specific. Liang: As far as I’m concerned, what I want to achieve—I’ve said it before—is to enable the undisciplined farmers—the farmers who take care of their own lives and take care of their families—to organize and form groups. Organized now.Group organization is one aspect, which is lacking in China, and we must move towards this aspect as soon as possible.Another aspect is that China's science and technology are too lacking and too backward, so how to introduce science and technology to China, to agriculture, to the industrialization of agriculture, this can be done now.A group organization, a science and technology, these two aspects, what I used to do in rural sports, and what I wanted to do, are now going in this direction.

Ai: One of the main points of my question is that when comparing Mao Zedong's plan with yours, there are many, many similarities—that is, your and Chairman Mao's plans for rural cooperatives and modernization plans. After the 1950s, what you originally wanted to do was really done. Liang: Let me add a word. Chairman Mao once said something called "On the Ten Major Relationships", which is very important.At that time, it seemed to be 1956. At that time, Mao himself was at his best. The best time was when he was very sober and asked all parties to give opinions and different opinions. Declare to yourself: I am responsible for this mistake, it should be my business, and no one else can be blamed.That was the time when he understood the most, but he couldn't do it later, and he became confused in his later years.

Ai: I know you are not from the Democratic League now... Liang: Yes. Ai: You used to be... Liang: It is the initiator. Ai: Yes.Please comment on the relationship or importance between the Democratic League, or other small political parties in the past, and national construction. Liang: One difference between me and other people who engage in political activities is that they almost all dream of British-style party politics: in the parliament there are mainly two major parties, one party in power, the other party at the bottom, Overseeing this government, or the one that came to power, did something wrong or was unpopular. If he stepped down, he would go up, and the two parties took turns in power. This is the situation in the UK.People other than me they all dream of this thing.The United Kingdom and the United States are also bipartisan.

I mean, this does not meet China's needs, because China is far behind foreign countries in terms of material civilization, economic construction, and mainly industry.In such a backward China, it is impossible to make up for this deficiency without hurrying, hurrying up and catching up. To make up for this, there must be a national political power, adopt a certain policy and line, and rely on this national government to make up for it. Regime, to determine a policy line, decades of stable situation to carry out, to build, can make up for that, you can't go up, I go down, you go up, I go down, this is not good!In this way, it is not acceptable to have such a policy and plan today, and to do so tomorrow.So I always dream of this, but others, that is to say, other parties besides me, they don't mean it. They all want to learn from Britain, the United States, and the two major parties.But later, the situation turned out to be what I thought it would be. The KMT was driven out, the mainland was unified, unified, and the Communist Party took control of the political power. It has been in control for decades, and it happened to do a lot of things.It's a pity that there is still some turmoil here, it's a pity that in the past 30 years, there has been some turmoil, it's a pity.But looking at the current situation, the turmoil has passed, and we can make great strides forward in the future, so I am very optimistic.This is my opinion, my hope.

Ai: This question is a bit about your personal life. Do you often have contact with the staff of rural construction back then? Liang: It’s a pity that the friends and students who were engaged in rural construction at that time, most of them passed away. (Ai: Are they all dead?) Most of them died, and I was the only one alive. (Ai: Don’t you have one? Except you...) It’s almost like this.Here is a student of mine, one of very few.I started the rural construction movement first in Henan and then in Shandong. He is from Henan. Ai: Are you from Henan?Mr. Meng? Liang: Yes, he is my student. Ai: He is from Henan, with Peng Yuting...

Liang: Yes, he is a student of Peng Yuting. Ai: Oh, it turned out to be a student of Peng Yuting.Is there anyone else besides him? Liang: Of course there are. It cannot be said that there is no such thing at all, very few. Ai: Do you have a relationship? Liang: In Beijing, there is another person named Li, who is from Suiyuan (now Inner Mongolia—Tilator). He is 70 years old now, and his longevity is also over 70. They are all retired and stay at home. Ai: You are not too clear about the recent situation of the rural construction workers who are still alive?You don't know too well? Liang: There are very few people. The Meng mentioned just now, and the one surnamed Li, are all in Beijing, and there are also some in other provinces.Compared with the students who I think are very capable, those who can do things for me and help me with things, several of them died, and they were all killed during the Anti-Japanese War.

Ai: Ah, yes.Hong Kong's "Guangming Daily" published a lot about your travels after the Anti-Japanese War to the enemy's front. It also mentioned that many students in Shandong formed a regiment, and almost all the members of that regiment... Liang: Yes. Ai: When I came the day before yesterday, I mentioned Hong Kong... (August 14, 1980)