Chapter 25 interview with mao zedong

On the night of July 15, 1936, Mao Zedong put down his writing of "Strategic Issues in China's Revolutionary War" and met Snow and Haydham in the cave where he lived. Mao Zedong invited Snow and Haydham to sit down at a white wooden square table.On the square table is an earthenware bowl upside down, and a lit candle stands on the bowl.Mao sat with his legs crossed in an alcove hewn out of the rock, smoking a cigarette and conversing with Snow and Haydem. Snow was very moved by the cave dwellings where Mao Zedong and He Zizhen lived. Compared with the luxurious life of those dignitaries and dignitaries in Shanghai and Beiping, it is simply a world apart.

Mao Zedong and his wife lived in two cave dwellings with simple walls and nothing but some maps. …The main luxury of the Maos was a mosquito net.Other than that, Mao Zedong's life was no different from that of ordinary soldiers in the Red Army.After being the leader of the Red Army for ten years, he confiscated the properties of landlords, bureaucrats and tax collectors thousands of times, but all his belongings are still a roll of bedding and a few pieces of clothing—including two sets of cloth uniforms.Although he is also a commander of the Red Army besides the chairman, the collar badges he wears are just the two red collar badges worn by ordinary Red Army soldiers.

Mao Zedong said to Snow: Mr. Sun Yat-sen's wife, Ms. Song Qingling, wrote a letter saying that you are a friendly and upright journalist to the Chinese people. I believe you will report our situation truthfully.The Red Army will welcome any journalist who visits the Soviet area.The Kuomintang was afraid that foreign journalists would know the real situation of the Red Army, spread rumors and slandered the Red Army as "bandits", and did not allow journalists to come to the Soviet area.You can go to any place in the Soviet area to interview without any restrictions, and the Soviet will give you convenience and help as much as possible.

Snow was very moved by Mao Zedong's sincerity and magnanimity, and said that he would report the situation of the Soviet area and the Red Army to the world fairly and truthfully.Just as Mao Zedong said, Snow was free throughout the entire interview period and was not subject to any inspection or hindrance. Mao Zedong smiled, and said to Haidham: Madam Soong Ching Ling told us that you are a doctor of medicine who sympathizes with and supports the Chinese revolution, and has superb medical skills.Our Soviet area and the Red Army are very short of doctors, and medical technology and equipment are very poor.Please consider visiting each of our hospitals during your visit and making critical comments.We also plan to establish a medical university, and please propose a preparatory plan based on your investigation.

Haidham expressed that he would do his best, and conveyed Ms. Soong Ching Ling's greetings and respect to all the leaders of the Communist Party, specifically stating: Ms. Soong Ching Ling asked me to bring you some medicines and medical equipment. From then on, for many nights in a row, in this cave dwelling, Mao Zedong answered relevant questions raised by Snow, and the two asked and answered each other.Snow wrote down such a scene in "Westward Journey": It was past two o'clock in the morning, and I was exhausted, but I couldn't find any signs of fatigue on Mao Zedong's pale and yellowish face.When Wu Liangping was translating and recording with me, he paced back and forth between the two small rooms, sat down, lay down, and leaned against the table to read a stack of reports.Madam Mao was still up.

Snow asks: What is the basic policy of the Soviet government towards capitalist countries in general? Mao Zedong replied: "Before discussing policy issues, I must ask you to always understand that the biggest problem for the Chinese people at present is resistance to Japanese imperialism. The foreign policy of our Soviet government was born out of this struggle. The Japanese warlords attempted to conquer The whole of China has turned all the Chinese people into slaves of their colonies. Therefore, resisting the aggression of Japanese imperialism and smashing Japan's economic and military conquest are the two basic subjects for analyzing the foreign policy of the Soviet government.

"Japanese aggression not only threatens the peace of China but also the peace of the world, especially the peace in the Pacific Ocean; the Japanese imperialists are not only the enemy of the Chinese nation, but also the enemy of all peace-loving people in the world. Especially the British China, France, the Soviet Union, and other countries with interests in the Pacific Ocean are enemies. Japan's continental and maritime policies directly threaten not only China, but also the above-mentioned countries. "Therefore, the question of Japanese aggression is not only a question of China alone, but also a question of all countries with interests in the Pacific Ocean. Therefore, the Chinese Soviet government and the Chinese people hope to unite all countries, nations, parties and factions , and popular organizations to form a united front to jointly defeat Japanese imperialism."

Snow asked: How does the Soviet government distinguish between friends and imperialists? Mao Zedong said: "Our observation on the issue of imperialism is this. Among the major powers, some countries have expressed their reluctance to participate in a new world war, and some countries have expressed that they must not sit back and watch Japan occupy the entirety of China. These countries, such as the United States , UK, France, Netherlands and Belgium etc. "In the past, the Nanjing government received a lot of aid from the United States, Britain and other countries. Unfortunately, these funds and aid were used for civil wars. This kind of civil war not only oppressed the Red Army, but also devastated countless Chinese people. Because the Nanjing government killed a Red Army before According to the recent estimate of the famous banker Mr. Zhang Naiqi, the burden of the Chinese people on the Nanjing government to kill a Red Army is 80,000 yuan. Therefore, this kind of "aid" does not, in our opinion, It is not really helping the Chinese people.

“Only when the Nanjing government is determined to resist Japan and really unites with the people’s revolutionary organizations to form an anti-Japanese democratic government, can this kind of assistance be of real benefit to the Chinese nation.”② Snow asked: Did the Soviet government recognize the treaty concluded between the Beiping government (the Beiyang warlord government) and the Nanjing government (the Kuomintang government)?What treaties can you accept if you accept? Mao Zedong replied: "Japan has broken all treaties in fact. The only thing before us is resistance to Japanese imperialism.

"If the Soviet government defeats Japanese imperialism and recovers China's lost provinces, we will definitely establish close friendship and mutual benefit relations with those countries that aid or do not oppose the Chinese nation in its war of independence. As for those countries that actually aid Japan The state, of course, cannot get the same treatment. "When China truly achieves independence, all foreign commercial interests in China will enjoy unprecedented opportunities. We have only one way to deal with the Japanese imperialists, and that is to resist by force, cancel all unequal treaties, and confiscate the Japanese imperialists. property in China, and eradicate all Japanese privileges, concessions, and political forces in China. These include the "Homei Agreement," the "Shanghai Armistice Agreement," the "Tanggu Agreement," and the "Anti-Communist Agreement," which the Chinese people unanimously opposed."

When answering the question "What is the Soviet government's hope for the U.S. government and the American people? How can they truly aid China?" Mao Zedong said: "According to our opinion, the American people and the U.S. government have always looked at China. It is relatively ambitious, and the objective environment also determines that they occupy a major position in the Sino-Japanese dispute. We hope and believe that they will further organize a united front with the Chinese people to defeat Japanese imperialism and the fascism it represents The front. This is what the American people and their government should and can do to help the Chinese people. Many American people have organized many organizations of their own accord, such as the Friends of the Chinese People’s Association, the Pacific International Relations Symposium, the Pan Pacific Association, and the Chinese Studies Association. They have shown their love for China and declared their sympathy for all Chinese people. On behalf of the Chinese people, we would like to pay special tribute to the Friends of the Chinese People's Society and other groups, and thank them for their kind sympathy and assistance to us. "However, there are many myopic politicians in the United States. They believe that Japan conquered China and have nothing to do with them. Our Communist Party believes that this is a wrong concept of a small number of Americans, because the interests of the United States in the Far East and the Pacific Ocean are only to defeat Japanese imperialism. Only then is it guaranteed.” July 16.Snow conducts an interview on the central topic of "On Japanese Imperialism". Mao Zedong said: "The final victory must be China's. The most important thing for China is that first, it must realize a united front at home. Second, it must expand it to all countries with interests in Pacific peace. "The Chinese Communist Party, the Soviet government, the Red Army and the Chinese people are ready to unite with any country to try to shorten the time of this war. If no one cooperates with us, we will also decide to do it ourselves." Snow asked: Is the current urgent task of the Chinese people to recover all the territories lost to the Japanese imperialists?Or should we drive Japan out of North China and recover the Chinese territory within the Great Wall? Mao Zedong said: "The current urgent task of the Chinese people is to recover all our lost land, not only the sovereignty within the Great Wall, but the need to recover the Northeast." Snow asked: If the Sino-Japanese war unfolds for a long period of time and Japan is not completely defeated, can the Communist government agree to make peace and recognize Japan's rule of Northeast China? Mao Zedong replied: "This is impossible! The Chinese Communist Party, like the Chinese people, does not allow Japan to leave an inch of China!" Snow asked: According to your opinion, what is the main strategy of this "war of liberation"? Mao Zedong replied: "This kind of strategy must be fought on a very long and uncertain front! This kind of strategy depends entirely on the success of marching at high speed, the speed of advance and retreat, and the agility of gathering and distributing on a difficult and dangerous battlefield. This war It is a large-scale guerrilla strategy, not positional warfare with deep trenches, barriers, and defensive fortifications. Our strategy and tactics must be coordinated with the battlefield where the war takes place, which defines a guerrilla warfare. "Geographically, with such a vast battlefield, it is possible for us to conduct the most effective guerrilla warfare. This war is being fought in China, which means that the Japanese army will be completely surrounded by the hostile Chinese people. "In addition to mobilizing the trained Chinese army, we also need to arm most of the guerrillas politically and militaryly among the peasants. The work done by the Northeast Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army only shows the extent to which the revolutionary peasants in China can mobilize for the war of resistance." A small fraction of latent strength, if commanded and organized properly, this guerrilla force could keep the Japanese busy twenty-four hours a day, exhausted. "During the course of the war, our country was able to obtain many Japanese prisoners and seize a large amount of weapons and ammunition and war machinery. Therefore, the mechanical equipment of the anti-Japanese army will be gradually improved, and at the same time it will be updated and strengthened with the help of foreign countries, so it will be engaged in positional warfare. , use artillery fortifications, ditches, etc. to attack the Japanese army. In this way, under the long-term consumption and oppression of the occupation of China, the Japanese economy will collapse. In the torment of countless wars that cannot determine the overall situation, the morale of the Japanese army will decline. Day by day, the latent power of the Chinese Communist Party is surging and rising, and a large number of revolutionary people are pouring into the front line, preparing to fight for freedom. However, Japanese imperialism is collapsing day by day because of China's resistance." Snow asked: When fighting abroad, all Chinese troops must be placed under a unified command.If the Red Army is allowed to participate in the Supreme Military Council, can the Red Army agree that both political and military parties must obey its resolutions? Mao Zedong's answer was clear: "If this committee can truly resist the Japanese, our government will enthusiastically obey its resolutions." July 18.Focusing on "internal affairs", Snow interviewed Mao Zedong. Question: What is the present policy of the Soviet Government with regard to: (1) the petty capitalists, petty bourgeoisie, etc. of the country. (2) Big capitalists, landlords and compradors. (3) Intellectuals and freelancers—such as doctors, engineers, journalists, architects, etc.? Mao Zedong replied: "Under the current situation, when the whole of China is facing the imminent juncture of becoming a Japanese slave, our policy, in order to form all patriots into a national anti-Japanese front, has changed in many respects. up. "Since the beginning of the Soviet movement, we have always welcomed the participation of intellectuals. All freelancers are given rights to Soviet citizens. Petty bourgeoisie, small businessmen, etc., and political rights. Born in capitalist or landowner families, but Participating in the revolution myself also gives Soviet citizens full rights and can be elected to official positions. "In the current period of preparing for the War of Resistance Against Japan, the land of the rich peasants will not be confiscated. The land of the landlords must be redistributed, because the failure to carry out the agrarian revolution will weaken the foundation of the War of Resistance Against Japan; but the landlords whose land has been confiscated will be given A piece of cultivated land. The property of small landlords will not be confiscated. Landlords who participated in the Anti-Japanese Movement will be given special treatment. White officers who participated in the Anti-Japanese War will have the right to own land and their families will be protected. "There is a special provision in the Soviet law to protect overseas Chinese. The purpose of our current policy is to promote the great unity of the whole nation against Japanese imperialism, fight against the Japanese invaders, and strive for the liberation of our nation. All the Kuomintang expropriations We have abolished the tax. In Shaanxi and Gansu we do not levy land tax now, but in the future we will only levy a very low progressive tax.” Mao Zedong also said: "Now, Nanjing's army is attacking us. On the one hand, we have to deal with it. We are forced to fight defensively with people who want to destroy us. At the same time, we continue to urge Nanjing to cooperate with us. Our The slogan was: 'Stop the civil war, unite against Japan.'' "The campaign against the continuation of the civil war is expanding throughout the country, and more and more Kuomintang officials will join the united front. Until Chiang Kai-shek is forced to change his strategy. Many of our red leaders were former Kuomintang officers and officials—for example For example: Zhu De, Luo Binghui, He Long, Peng Dehuai, Lin Biao, Chen Geng, Ye Jianying, Xu Xiangqian, to name just a few, used to be KMT military officers. Lin Boqu used to be a KMT chaebol and was a member of the Central Executive Committee. Many others like this People who have already united with us, and in the future, as the struggle against Japanese imperialism deepens, more such people will unite with the Red Army." July 19, 1936. Snow asked Mao Zedong: Regarding the "barbaric" and "cruel" records of the Red Army in Chinese and foreign newspapers, Mao Zedong said: "In the past, Chiang Kai-shek and the Kuomintang spread many fictional stories about the Red Army's massacres in the Soviet area. , adultery and burning. We invite you to travel around for yourself and see if anyone kills and burns for fun. You will not hear a single incident of adultery in the Red Army. In the Red Army such criminals are punished by death punished. "The masses of the people are the only real 'base' of the Red Army. The Red Army does not burn any houses, nor kills any innocent people. Very common sense can tell us that the reason why the Red Army has been able to exist for so many years is because it has acquired All the sympathy and support of the people. Common sense can also tell us that burning people's houses and killing people cannot win their sympathy and support. "Some propaganda says that the Red Army massacred intellectuals. This is especially a stupid lie. "We must protect the intellectuals, and we use every means to win them over to the revolution. Our mission is to liberate the intellectuals, not to destroy them. Look around at the schoolteachers, technicians, engineers and writers in the Soviet area , ask them if it is true that the Red Army massacred intellectuals." When talking about the land issue, Mao Zedong said: "The collectivization of land is a matter of the future, and now it is to distribute land to peasants who have no land. At present, what peasants want is not a commune, but land ownership. "There is no problem of unemployment in the Soviet districts. Neither usurers nor usurers are allowed. Pawnshops have been completely abolished. Poppy cultivation and the purchase, sale and smoking of opium are prohibited. In the red districts, embezzlement of public funds and public bribery are severely punished." Yes. I myself count as a Soviet dignitary, but I get less than a Red Army soldier, only five yuan a month's allowance." "In terms of culture, after the Red Army occupied a place, it immediately began to organize schools for the people, and used all methods to teach the people to read and write. We have achieved amazing results in the eradication of illiteracy in Jiangxi, and we have also organized a school in Shaanxi and Gansu. Fight illiterate societies and build village schools." Mao Zedong also answered questions such as "the current industrial plan of the Soviet Union" and "views on Nanjing's foreign policy". On July 23, Mao Zedong answered Snow's six questions including "relationships". On July 25, 1936, after Mao Zedong told Snow about the Long March of the Red Army, he said: An important reason why the Party is invincible is that it has talents, a group of revolutionary cadres, and they have extraordinary talents, loyalty and courage.Talked about Zhu De, Wang Ming, Luo Fu, Zhou Enlai, Bo Gu, Wang Jiaxiang, Peng Dehuai, Zhang Guotao, Xu Xiangqian and so on.Mao Zedong never talked about himself, but copied his own poem "The Long March" and presented it to Snow. Through frequent interviews and contacts, Snow became more and more interested in Mao Zedong, and wanted to collect his personal history and write a biography for him.One day, Snow gave Mao a list of questions about his personal life.Mao Zedong did not comment.Snow tried his best to convince Mao Zedong: People want to know what kind of person you are.There are many legends about your death, some people think you can speak fluent French, some people say that you are an ignorant peasant, and some people say that you are a half-dead tuberculosis patient, and some people insist that you Be a fanatic...you should dispel rumors. In order to find out whether Mao Zedong was suffering from tuberculosis, Haidham carefully examined Mao Zedong's body and said happily: "Your body is very good, especially there is no problem with your lungs, but you are lack of nutrition and you are tired from work." Snow said: "I want to tell the whole world that Mao Zedong is in very good health, and let the rumors created by the Kuomintang go bankrupt!"