Chapter 9 Dialogues on Diaspora, Tybitt Tests, and Exotic Love

——Conversation between Hongying and Zhi'an : Diaspora Zhi'an: I heard that you have a new novel to be published, what kind of subject matter and background? HY: On the surface, it is an international historical theme.The story takes place in the present, in India.I think it is the so-called "diaspora literature" in terms of subject matter.Mass immigration in the modern world, especially the movement of intellectual circles, constitutes a new cultural phenomenon.Of course, descendants of previous immigrants, such as Naipaul, constitute a global "rootless race".The word Diaspora, Diaspora, is originally a Greek word referring to the long-term diaspora of the Jews mentioned in the Bible."Scattered ethnic groups" like the Jews can only gain a foothold by relying on independent cultural contributions.In contemporary times, this kind of diaspora is not a phenomenon unique to individual ethnic groups, but almost all ethnic groups have it.But it can be said that China and India are two "large diasporic nations".So diaspora is my heartfelt concern.Western universities now have this department, called Diaspora studies.I should be considered a diaspora writer myself.

This long article is here, please read it yourself.Becoming a Buddha and becoming a demon in one thought: Diaspora itself is not an enviable thing, I can only say that poets come from pain. Zhi'an: It seems that many writers like to write works like this: he lives in this place, but writes about that place. This is almost a kind of literature.For example, Zhang Ailing, when she wrote about Hong Kong, she was already in Shanghai, and when she wrote about the mainland, she went to Hong Kong again.So what is the difference between writing this way of writing across time and regions, and writing about the things around you at this moment?

HY: The imagination is richer, and it can be played more freely without any restrictions.I read a book that said that when a person is dreaming, he can realize that he is dreaming, and he is dreaming again in the dream, and he knows which thing is wrong and which thing is right. There is already a virtue.Some people don’t know it’s a dream when they’re dreaming, and they wake up in a flash, or they wake up from fright, or they regret what they’ve done.But some people can correct everything about themselves in their dreams.He can do it again in a dream, and such a person is different from other dreamers.So the writing method that transcends time and space you just mentioned can also become a conscious artistic behavior.In writing, one can see a major feature of diaspora literature: it is actually not something that can be summed up by such a simplistic title as "immigrant literature". penetration.

Zhi'an: Maybe the writer is not writing about what is happening around him, so he can see it more clearly and thoroughly, and he is more free in the arrangement.As for the geographical background, it may be illusory. Of course, some connections with the local area can be found, but it does not need to be so practical after all.In addition, when people are in a foreign land, they often have a sense of wandering, without roots, and unable to control their own destiny.Belarusian writers in exile in Europe, such as Bunin, have written many similar works, full of sense of loss and vicissitudes.

HY: Yes, for example, the works of Kazuo Ishiguro and Naipaul are almost all about such things, no spiritual hometown. Zhi'an: Some American Jewish writers after World War II, such as Singer, Bellow, Malamud, etc., also wrote in this way, although they wrote about things around them.This actually includes two aspects. One is to place the characters in a foreign background, and the other is to lose contact with the environment in which the characters live and the soil on which they live. This creates a sense of vicissitudes and loss. HY: Even going back to The Odyssey.People come back to their hometown and look for something, but they can't find it.

Zhian: It can also be said that this is actually a model or a method. Of course, each writer has his specific things that he can develop. HY: Like myself, I feel rootless and my body is floating in the air.From leaving home in the 1980s to now, I have been on the road, exactly the same as the American writer who wrote on the road. I have experienced many things until I went to the West.It took twenty years.For a writer, it doesn't really matter where he lives.But the vision and mood are different.Just as I think the war between the United States and Afghanistan may be different from others.The clash of civilizations will be a big topic for decades.This is a big topic, let's not talk about it for now.Let me talk about a small topic: ten years ago, the chairman of the British Conservative Party, Tabet, proposed: "Whoever you cheer for is playing cricket or football, you are from that country."This "terabit test method" is really difficult to deal with.At that time, Tabet was giving a speech at the University of London. As soon as the car entered the school gate, he was surrounded by students, kicked and smashed violently.Of course, this cannot solve the problem, because the same problem is no longer fought by fists, but by war.Even after this war, the "Tabit Test" will still be a huge problem that has lasted for centuries. It is very different from the fact that nations lived according to regions in the past, and globalization cannot seal off national borders.No matter "K" is still writing about this conflict, writing about the "Tabit test" deep in our hearts.

I think the division of world culture is now a state of confrontation.White people in Europe, since the Dover incident and the Australian boat people incident, have turned pale when talking about the word "immigration".But without immigrants, where would the modern world be? "K" and "K" both write about the conflict between Chinese and Western cultures and the difficulties of adjustment, even between lovers, it is difficult to communicate in the end.The strange thing is that some writers write interracial love, except for sex, except for "wet", there is nothing wrong with it.This is so strange.I'm not blaming the "new generation" of writers again.If there is only enjoyment between men and women of different races, no problems, no reflections, is this still literature?This is even more mindless than a romance novel.As soon as I said this, another young writer accused me of being outdated.I would like to ask this strange question: Why do Chinese "Xinxin" novels end once and for all when they go to bed?

I will not ignore this question: the love tragedy of the conflict between Chinese and Western cultures is an eternal lament. Zhi'an: When you were writing this book, did you receive any influence?For example, what books did you read that made you feel a sense of fit? HY: Writing itself is a kind of creation, no book can influence me.Of course, during the period of thinking—many years of thinking—I read some religious books, read the Diamond Sutra, and read it silently before going to bed. , The mood is empty.I also read Foster's "A Passage to India"; of course, to express the pain and loss of modern people in cultural confusion, these books are nothing but knowledge preparation.

Almost all of my novels and even shorts have a river.For example, the upper reaches of the Yangtze River are in it, and the middle reaches of the Yangtze River are in "K", which is the Ganges River.The Ganges flows through my heart every night.The novellas "A Town of Thousands of Gold" and "Give Me Rose Six Mile Bridge" also have rivers.The river gives me life, and I humanize the river.In this sense, no other book has ever influenced me more than the river.When I write anything, as soon as I touch a river, my whole person changes. I am that river. Zhian: You said that the river constitutes a part of your works. Do you mean that it is an image in the works, or a factor of the plot?a background?a symbol?

HY: It is a symbol.In the middle, when I crossed that river, my fate was different.Another example is Julian in "K". He crossed the river for the last time and left China, which also symbolizes that he will never be able to integrate with this nation, and he will never be able to understand the culture of this country. The woman he loves, he will never be able to love.He is incapable of love.He has crossed this river many times.Every time he was hit or hindered, he had to cross the river to find something of his, but he couldn't find it, he was actually a loser, and I was full of sympathy for him.

There is also this symbol.On the banks of the Ganges, the fate and catastrophe of two families, one is Chinese and Indian, the other is Chinese and British.The grievances and grievances they forged during World War II are now up to their next generation to bear the sins of their predecessors.The river crosses their fate for half a century.Every twelve years in India, there is a Kumbamela Festival. Hindus bathe by the river to wash away their sins and ailments and pray for heaven.Can this river really wash away all sins?In fact, what I am here is a denial of religious fanaticism.Rivers exist, religion is respectable, but fanaticism is an eternal tragedy for human beings. Zhian: You have arranged such a symbolic factor in your works, which may be beneficial for deepening the theme and background.Many ups and downs are known only to the author himself.People who write novels have some special experiences that are difficult for others to grasp.In Zhang Ailing's "Lust, Caution", the whole story is actually foreshadowing. The key point is that the heroine utters the word "go fast". If it is written by another writer, it will definitely be different.If other writers write "Remembrance of Time Gone", it may be a short story, like Woolf's "A Spot on the Wall", written by others, it may be just one sentence.Italo Calvino's "The Castle of Crossed Fates" is, for a realist writer, nothing. HY: That's right. intentional and unintentional Zhi'an: Another issue is the writer's consciousness, or thought, his general understanding of the world.For example, I think Lu Xun is greater than Shen Congwen, it is here.Shen Congwen identified too much with his characters in terms of viewpoint and standpoint, and when Lu Xun wrote in the first person, he was also inseparable from the characters.To put it harshly, Shen Congwen still has a little "cheap sympathy". HY: Shen Congwen is indeed different from Lu Xun. Lu Xun has no heart at all, while Shen Congwen has a heart. Zhi'an: Shen Congwen is a mortal, and Lu Xun is a superman. HY: They are two different types of writers. Zhi'an: But for those kind of writers with a heart, there are some things that cannot be overcome here, and there is an obstacle.You just talked about the issue of Buddhism. In fact, the point of view of Buddhism is not personal, but the point of view of heaven, which is above all sentient beings.It can feel the pain of everyone, and at the same time transcend everyone.The so-called compassion is to know the pain in the world, but also know that it is impossible not to suffer.Therefore, Lu Xun was sympathetic, and Shen Congwen's limitation lies in this. Of course, it is not right to blame him for this, because many writers, such as Lao She and Ba Jin, are like this.You said just now that there is no heart, and all great writers have no heart.I haven't read many novels in the past twenty years. As far as modern literature is concerned, there are only two people who have no heart, one is Lu Xun and the other is Zhang Ailing.None of them have that "cheap sympathy".One of the cutest characters in Zhang Ailing's novels is Yan Danzhu in the novel. She lives outside the story of this novel, but her ending is the worst, almost being beaten to death, completely innocent.After reading this, I think Zhang Ailing is very great, and she is not afraid at all.Greatness must be fearless.Shen Congwen was still afraid. HY: This is the problem with all of Shen Congwen's novels. He is too considerate of readers. Zhi'an: Strictly speaking, Shen Congwen is a writer with dreams.Rather than saying that he has a heart, it is more appropriate to say that he has a dream.Whether it is Lu Xun or Zhang Ailing, they are all writers who have woken up from their dreams.I think if there is one place Chinese writers need to surpass, it is here.For other issues, whether it's subject matter, structure, or technique, they all come second.If you go beyond, you are a great writer.Some very old writers, such as Liu E, are close to this point.Writers should be tough when they write.When I read Flaubert, I feel that there is such a revelation that people cannot escape, and even dreams are not a place to escape.I don't know if you agree or not? HY: This is a tragedy. Perhaps in life, we try to ignore any unpleasantness as much as possible. When you write a novel, you cannot escape "problemization". Zhi'an: I think of Hemingway again. In fact, his later novels have similar problems with Shen Congwen.For Shen Congwen, the ideal is in Fenghuang County, but for Hemingway, it is the so-called "tough guy" character.Today, if novelists still want to find a place, a person, or a kind of character as an idealized thing, there must be limitations, which is somewhat ridiculous. HY: You are right.The more idealized, the more problematic.There is nothing in this world that is not embarrassing.Ideals themselves make difficult things more difficult. Zhi'an: To be honest, I didn't read many of your novels before. I read more poems and prose.When I read it, it felt as if you were still a primarily sentimental writer. HY: I am actually a very rational person.My attitude towards life and my writing are all very rational. Zhi’an: Of course, your novels are not without rational elements. For example, looking back, a mysterious character only appeared in chapters 17 and 18, which is the chapter where your biological father met you. This is a kind of rational arrange.There are also the symbolic factors mentioned above, and the attitude of maintaining restraint throughout your book, these are all manifestations of rationality. HY: It's just my important work, but not the best one. It is a transformable key. If you hold it well, it can open my other works.This novel is completely recorded according to the facts. Compared with other fictional short and long stories, I think it is very rational, and I understand every sentence clearly.If it was a woman's heart to write these things, it would never be like this, and I am a heartless person. There are some places in "K" that can be completely free to write, but it stopped with a click.The break is broken. This is the same as my personality. I don’t make friends half-heartedly. Once I recognize someone as a friend, I will cherish them very much, and I will cherish them for the rest of my life.Maybe sometimes the emotion is too much, but I will correct myself in a moment, this is not exactly like a female emotion, I think it is closer to a male's approach.I also deal with the subject matter of novels in the same way.In fact, some of my ideas and artistic views can be seen from my short stories.For example, the early works "Orphan Little Six" and "The Bridge of Mystery", last year's one, about a girl's growth, was written in one day, and the ending I never expected. She and a group of street ruffian boys under her, After being arrested, they jumped into the river together from the high bridge and drowned.All the bodies were salvaged from downstream, but hers could not be found. People found the body of an old woman with white hair, but no one thought it was her.This short story is not easy to write, reincarnation, encounter by fate, destiny. Zhi'an: This idea is very interesting.Continuing with the topic I just mentioned, I think there are different types of rationality: one belongs to writing skills, such as implicitness and restraint; In their works there is always a distance between the writer and his characters.They look down on the characters; there is a third type, which refers to the philosophical sense, which is reflected in the overall conception of the work.The rationality I am talking about is mainly on the last point. To put it bluntly, it is the "ruthless" or "unintentional" just mentioned.Ultimately, what is involved is the understanding of the nature of the world, that is, the question of being and non-existence.Like Borges, he wrote about nothing instead of being. He didn't pay attention to our life or our existence at all. HY: But sometimes there is nothing, and nothing is there, and you can't tell them apart.Borges has brains but no heart. His shortcoming, that is, the limitation of his works lies here, and he is repetitive. Zhi'an: Borges found a pattern, which is a language for the whole world, and it is impossible for him not to repeat it. HY: Borges has indeed become a model. We all agree that he is a great writer, but his works have the same beginning, middle, and end. It seems that he is in a maze. He should get out of this maze a little bit. He will definitely not be able to write a long novel, and he just can't make it out.Because writing a novel is like you may be in that maze, but you may also build a "castle" on top of that maze, like Kafka, he cannot compare with Kafka in this regard.It occurred to me more than once that I would understand all the nonsense that had happened to me. Zhian: You seem to have confused them into one category. I think all writers are one category, but Borges alone is one category.The difference is still there and nothing.To expand a little bit, Calvino can also be included in the category of Borges. HY: The language of the novel is a pure symbol: it has no meaning in itself, and it can be infinitely derived.To be in nothing, to be in nothing: it is an art above all others. When I write, I prefer to live in a basement or an attic Zhi'an: Besides writing, what do you usually like to do? HY: Get up early in the morning to clean the floor and clean it up.Usually, I cook, grow flowers, listen to music, watch DVDs, and play table tennis.Reading is work and must be done. I read in a mess, I read all kinds of books, and I read several books at the same time.In the past few days, I have been reading a book about making cocktails, and another about horror stories about carnivals in Europe.I read mainly to get what I need, to absorb what I want to absorb, and to read everything. I have never formally attended a university, so I know that I lack knowledge and have to work hard.But I don’t read anything when I’m writing, and no books can affect me anymore, because then I will be disturbed.It usually takes me three years to write a novel: one year to read a lot of books and go to some related places; one year to write the first draft; one year to revise.But often the books I read in the past three years are also preparing for the next new book. Zhi'an: But not all books are beneficial to open the book, and some books are not worth reading at all, such as Nan Huaijin, which is too superficial.Before I read a book, I always think carefully whether it is worth spending so much time on it. HY: Sometimes it is useful to see three words, such as "seven lamps". If you think about it, you will be confused by it.Maybe it was useless at the time, but after a while, maybe a year or two later, I would suddenly think of this sentence, and it would suddenly come out of my subconscious. Zhi'an: This is probably a characteristic of a novelist or poet.In my opinion, novelists and poets are one kind of people, and those who write prose are another kind of people.According to your reading method, does it resonate with you when you see a certain sentence in the book? HY: But reading is like this, I only read what works for me.I also write some comments, very few, but once I agree, I will read them carefully, and I will not write something I am not familiar with or do not know out of thin air. Some people write poetry by picking up a collection of poems and writing accordingly.When I write poetry, it is my own feelings and imaginations, and I don’t need other people’s books at all.And some people have to have other people's things before they can write and write sentences. I think it's terrible. Zhian: There is also another situation where a writer must enter a state when writing, and he can do this through reading. HY: There is such a thing. For example, a foreign writer reads Stendhal's book, and he writes a completely different book.This is entering into a state of creation, but it is not like the example I just mentioned, which is close to a kind of imitation. Zhi'an: Yes, we are talking about two different things.For example, if I want to write an article, I can't read novels, but must read something close to the article, and I must adjust my breath.I like Zhou Zuoren, because he can make me enter the state.Writing a novel might be different. HY: It’s not the same. For example, I have to place several books beside me, such as a dictionary and two books that I can recite by heart. Actually, I don’t need to read at all.For example, I have to turn on the music, this thing must be placed in this place, and that thing must be placed in that place. If I move the place, I may not be able to do anything this day.This is a very important question.Today we are here to talk, but if I were to talk to someone today, it would kill me. As for what you said about entering the creative state, it actually means removing all impurities, and getting rid of all the things that interfere with writing.I also need this state.Because text is too clean a thing.If you see a very dirty person or encounter an ugly thing, you have to take a shower first thing when you get home, otherwise the whole day will be wrong, the mood will not be happy, and you will not be able to write anything beautiful something to come.So after a night of precipitation, when I wake up the next morning, the air is fresh, I put on clean homely clothes, sit at the table, and immediately meet the characters in my writing and arrange their fate. It is really a blessing to be a writer. When it comes to happiness, of course you have to comfort yourself.Writing is the loneliest job, and I respect anyone who chooses to write.In fact, my favorite way of life is this: I don't have any contact with anyone at all.If I don’t need to go out to buy things, I don’t need to meet anyone, and everything is shipped here for me, vegetables are also shipped here, and rice is also shipped here, then I will always be here, I would rather live like this basement or attic.When I write, I don’t need to socialize, I don’t need to talk to people, what I’ve been talking to the people in the book has been going on for almost half a century, it’s time to stop, I’m longing for a good night’s sleep.At this point, it's time for my protagonists—this time Ananda and Sophie—to enter the scene.