Chapter 22 From novel to stage play

origin Several years ago, when Bai Xianyong returned to Taiwan from the United States, we got together and chatted, and the topic turned to the matter of making it into a movie.It doesn't seem to be completely empty talk, the director, screenwriter and so on also have some clues.Unexpectedly, "A Dream in the Garden" was staged after the stillborn baby was about to emerge. Bai Xianyong spent a lot of effort and time in adapting "A Dream in the Garden" into a stage play.Last August, after many unexpected twists and turns and setbacks, "You" finally started.It is difficult for the audience to know the struggle and struggle behind the stage in the beautiful and lively play shown on the stage.Money is a natural factor. To paraphrase Bai Xianyong’s own words: “Begging for money everywhere, my head is swollen, and I started to do it only after raising one million Taiwan dollars.” Economic problems are difficult, but there are many difficulties, which are more difficult than the economy. Thousands of times, let's repeat Bai Xianyong's words: "There is a play on the stage, and a play off the stage." This part of the public case may have to be written by Bai Xianyong himself.If it weren't for his desperate struggle, the drama "You" might end up being nothing more than a spectacle.

After the performance of the play, the mixed reactions were really astonishing, which is controversial in a foreign language.Liu Shaoming returned to the United States from Taiwan during the summer vacation, and gave me a note saying, "A Dream in the Garden" is very moving.However, Taiwan generally sees comments in writing, which is strange, and it turned out to be an unpopular negative response.Taiwan's "climate of opinion" is often like a whirlwind, sweeping away all personal opinions, and the powerful monophonic voice suppresses all other voices.Curious on the one hand, and out of worry on the other, I invited Bai Xianyong to Berkeley to screen the video of "You" and hold a symposium.The invitation to the participants has also taken a lot of thought. I hope that the participants can discuss "A Dream in the Garden" from different approaches. They are:

Li Oufan: Professor of Far Eastern Languages ​​at the University of Chicago. Baizhi (Cyril Birch): Director of the Department of Oriental Languages ​​and Literatures at the University of California, Berkeley. Zhang Hongnian: Associate Professor of the Department of Oriental Languages ​​and Literature, UC Berkeley. Gao Dimin (Thomas Gold): Associate Professor of Sociology Department of UC Berkeley, Deputy Director of China Research Center. Lai Shengchuan: Student at the Graduate School of Drama at the University of Berkeley. Of course, there are also Bai Xianyong and Lu Yan. Under the influence of so many "bad reviews", I was really worried for Bai Xianyong, and I was deeply afraid that "unfortunate words" were true. Not only me, but a friend who also worked in the newspaper told me in advance: "It's not good, I have to wait halfway." Let's leave and say hello first." Many people who came to see it felt the same way.During the screening, everyone's admiration could be vaguely heard. Once when the film was being changed, Bai Zhi turned around and said to Zhang Hongnian, "Okay!"

The play ended, the lights were lit, and there was applause.Someone said, come back next year! Bai Xianyong was overjoyed, he laughed and said: "No, no! All my connections are exhausted this time..." Special thanks to: Chen Liangyue for his full support, and Zhu Baoyong for borrowing the audio-visual classroom of the Language Department for us to show the film.The symposium was held in the office of Professor Baizhi. In addition to the participants, there were several friends: Lin Xinqin, Lin Shumin, Ding Naizhu, Ding Naizheng, Zhai Zhicheng, and Hua Wei. "Assuming the audience hasn't read my novel."

Jin Hengwei: "A Dream in the Garden" caused a great sensation in Taiwan, and it can be called an "event".Being overseas, I have seen many reports, comments and debates, but unfortunately, I have not been able to take full advantage of them.This time, I am very grateful to Mr. Bai Xianyong for bringing the video to Berkeley for screening. At the same time, I would also like to thank everyone here for taking the time to participate in the discussion and express some overseas opinions and reactions. This discussion was originally planned to be divided into two parts.In the first part, the people participating in the forum are invited to express their personal views from different angles; in the second part, they discuss and exchange opinions with each other.If time is short, at least the first part can be completed.

I want to start with the guests from afar.Professor Li Oufan came here by plane from Chicago. He said that he revisited "A Dream in a Garden" on the plane. He is willing to adapt the original novel of "A Dream in a Garden" into a script and put it on stage. process, express some opinions. Li Oufan: What I am most interested in and what I want to know the most is the issue of changing from one literary form to another, that is, the issue of changing from novels to dramas. I know that Bai Xianyong spent a lot of time adapting novels into screenplays. (To Jin) Can I talk to Bai Xianyong first?

Jin Hengwei: Of course. Li Oufan (dialogue): What are you most concerned about when you adapt it? Is it a dramatic issue? Let me give you an example, the very subtle, ambiguous, and subtle places in your novel are in the performance of the drama It becomes very clear and strong, and the ambiguity is relatively weakened.Is it to take care of the audience... In short, what is the so-called "dramatic" all about. Bai Xianyong: When I adapted, I had an idea: assume that the audience has not read my novel.In the performance in Hong Kong (August 1981), since the audience was familiar with the novel, they completely followed the form of the novel, without having to consider whether they understood it or not.This time I assume that the audience has never read the novel, and it will be very difficult to change it.On the one hand, I am unwilling to sacrifice the spirit of the novel (everyone smiles knowingly); on the other hand, I have to take into account the drama.It is often thought of to maintain the spirit of the original novel while taking into account the drama.

Li Oufan: You added a paragraph before.At the beginning of the play, there are two servants talking, which seems to come from "Reminiscing the Old Fu".Of course, I immediately thought of Hamlet's "The Prince's Revenge". At the beginning, it was also a conversation between two guards, which seemed to imply that something was going to happen.I use "The Revenge of the Prince" as a formal comparison, which may be interesting. There are ghosts at the back of "The Revenge of the Prince", and the same is true for several important stories in "A Dream in the Garden". Do a one-man show with ghosts from the past behind it.In terms of form, it can be seen that Bai Xianyong has spent a lot of painstaking efforts, and several paragraphs have been added very well.The first paragraph introduces the whole thing.There is also the part where Cui Fusheng and Qian Lu quarreled, deliberately using a lot of cliche in the language, four words and four words, and the dramatic effect was completely brought out.In addition, I read the part of the stream of consciousness again on the plane, and I also recited part of it. I found that almost all the words (in the novel) were reproduced in the drama, but sometimes it was said a lot One point, for example, the sentence "his two eyes", there are only two sentences in the novel, but it is said four times in the play.

I want to ask Bai Xianyong one more question.When you adapted the stream of consciousness into a movie, did you encounter any difficulties? Lu Yan's voice is a little hoarse. Bai Xianyong: The part of the stream of consciousness is the highlight. It is not easy for the audience not only to understand it, but also to enjoy it. I am very happy that Li Oufan proposed "The Prince's Revenge".I remember the first time I came into contact with "The Prince's Revenge", it was a movie, played by Laurence Oliver. At that time, I hadn't studied Shakespeare, so I didn't understand it well. I saw him talking to himself for a long time, but I really didn't understand. Later, I read Hamlet and went to the United States to watch the performance. I knew what he was talking about, so I thought it was very interesting.So I think the form of the "monologue" performance, I am afraid that the audience should have some understanding of the content first, and the most important thing I think is the delivery of Ms. Lu Yan.There are several long monologues. When she performed, the audience of 3,000 people was silent, and they didn't even dare to cough. It can be seen that she has captured the audience.Because during the monologue, all the lights go out.There was only a solitary lamp shining on her alone, and it was very difficult for the audience to fully grasp, listen to her voice, and see her expressions and gestures.So "monologue" is a complete challenge for actors.

Li Oufan: This is completely successful, and I can explain where the success is. "Monologues" also exist in Western dramas, especially female monologues. Recently, an opera performed in Chicago was also a monologue by a female lead.I also watched a play (HumanVoice), which was also in the form of a monologue. The boyfriend left, and the heroine recalled the past, and the "monologue" was always "moving". Phone calls, combing her hair all of a sudden, people feel that she is extremely tired. After the play is over, I think she is really exhausted.But Lu Yan used the traditional Chinese drama form, basically the movements are symbolic, there is hardly any movement when standing there, the rhythm of the sound and the image make people feel the great shock, in the end (to Lu Yan) you The voice is a little hoarse, I'm afraid you are too excited, and then you say that my voice is not good, and the whole inner drama is expressed by the voice.

In this play, for me, the biggest gain is the acting skills, and it is impossible to write all these in the novel. Western literary criticism pays attention to "the relationship between various literary forms and editions." "A Dream in the Garden" is a modern novel, and the above is, and the above is. Of course, "A Dream in the Garden" has three or four levels. Adapting this novel into a drama can be just right in some respects, because the traditional spirit of Chinese literature is basically expressed in drama. Combination of tradition and modernity However, since it is a traditional theater form, there will be very big problems if it is moved to the modern stage; when encountering the problem of how to combine "tradition" and "modernity", many Western playwrights, such as Brecht ( Brecht) and Thornton Wilder also derived and applied many Chinese drama techniques.I personally think that Ms. Lu Yan's performance is in a modern form, but it uses a traditional spirit, because the monologues in traditional dramas are not like this.I am a modernist myself, and I always hope to express the best part of the tradition in a modern form with a modern spirit. "A Dream in the Garden" has made great efforts in terms of stage design, directing techniques, and scene transitions, etc., but I personally feel that it has not broken away from the traditional form. Far-fetched.For example, we watch the section in the form of a movie on TV now, but when the "Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hall" is performed, it is placed above the stage. I don't know how it works, so I can't comment.As far as the cinematography itself is concerned—I am a movie fan, and when I see a movie, I am more demanding—Bai Xianyong’s stream of consciousness is expressed in movies, which can be said to be the most Western. I also saw it in it. The shadow of DHLawrence, like a white tree, like a horse.In Western movies and dramas, the horse is called Equus, which is also regarded as a symbol.It is quite feasible to use a horse as a symbol, and it can be photographed very well, but it must be a symbol and not make it realistic. In "You" the heads of the two horses cross together, I don't think it is necessary.If you use Lawrence's method to shoot, you can focus on the legs and the mane. In "You" the horse doesn't run, only the sound is used. I think we can use a little more montage, because the form of film is different from that of drama.This play has many forms and is very complex. The complex aspects of this structure should be able to be expressed by film techniques, which is worthy of the novel.I think the complex structure of "You" is not enough. Maybe the Taiwanese film practitioners have their own ideas. Let’s talk about the stage form again.The furnishing of the furniture has not been fully utilized. If we use a more expressive dramatic technique, the lighting can change the furniture, and at the same time, the lighting effect can be brought into full play.Of course, this involves the problem of rhythm (tempo). If it becomes colorful and colorful, it will break the whole atmosphere, which is not good. I would like to ask a question for people who study drama.Chinese dramas or dramas, from the "May 4th Movement" to the present, have always been inseparable from the framework of realism. Chinese dramas in the past were not just about realism. This is an old question that has been discussed a lot.Especially when a novel like "A Dream in a Garden" is adapted into a drama—this novel is both ancient and modern; traditional and modern; It is also worth considering when it is used on the stage.Purely in terms of form, comparing "A Dream in the Garden" with "The New Match of the Lotus Pearl", the "Lotus" drama is more unique on some levels, because the "Lotus" drama makes the flat drama comical, Make it energized.Of course, if it is too modern and energetic, it will also reduce the classical beauty.In terms of form, "You" drama has definitely achieved classical beauty.In particular, Ms. Lu Yan's voice and rhythm are completely full of classical beauty. One last question.The "Consultant Cheng" in the novel is now called "Cheng Zhigang" in the play.Two men, a bit double, one is the past, the other is the present, one is surnamed Cheng, the other is surnamed Zheng, even the pronunciation is similar.The appearance of these two people, the one surnamed Cheng is more modern, it can be said that they belong to the new generation of Taiwan, and their hairstyles are also more modern, but the staff officer in Nanjing is too westernized, his hair should be combed clean, with a small mustache, wearing riding boots…… Bai Xianyong (insert): Let me explain, there is a reason for this. Taiwan performances are limited by the stage Let me talk about the above-mentioned issues first.First, rehearsals in Taiwan are very limited by the stage. There is no stage in Taiwan that can be rotated, and you cannot move.Second, many of the issues you just mentioned are related to the budget. A small change can cost hundreds of thousands (Taiwan dollars).Those of us who participated in this drama are all voluntary, and we did it under the "spirit of overcoming difficulties".The photography was borrowed. Fortunately, Zhang Zhaotang is very experienced. The lighting of the Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hall was not designed for stage performances.If there is a new theater, the problem of technique is easier to solve.And those two horses, there are only these two horses in Taiwan, and there are only these two horses when they are photographed (everyone laughs).As for the hair, the actor is making another movie, which is modern, and we don't pay for it. I wanted to cut it for him, but I couldn't cut it... (everyone laughs again). Zhai Zhicheng: Why not change roles? His role is not too important. Bai Xianyong: There are still a lot of troubles, involving the camera face, the newcomer looks good, but it is not the case when you try the camera.This man has tried. Jin Hengwei: Next, I would like to invite Professor Bai Zhi to speak.Professor Bai Zhi specializes in Chinese literature, especially has superb experience in Chinese drama.I remember the first time I went to see Professor Bai Zhi, he was translating, and this book was published last year. If I remember correctly, after Professor Bai came to Berkeley, he had a close relationship with Mr. Chen Shixiang, and watched a lot of Chinese operas together.It must be very interesting for Professor Bai to read "A Dream in the Garden" with his translators and researchers. Three Sisters Trapped in Time Bai Zhi: I am very grateful for this rare opportunity to watch "A Dream in the Garden". At one time, I have enjoyed Pingju, drama, and Kunqu Opera. I think it is very good in all aspects and very moving. I have no particular opinion.I think that if a modern writer wants to use traditional Chinese literature as the subject matter, there is some irony in it.We use Tang Xianzu's "A Dream in the Garden" as an introduction to watch Bai Xianyong's play, which is very interesting.Bai Xianyong's "A Dream in the Garden" considers what Du Liniang will look like in middle age... Bai Xianyong: I never thought of this... (Then laughs loudly). Bai Zhi: Tang Xianzu wrote the dream in Du Liniang's garden very implicitly and beautifully.Later, Du Liniang died, a miserable death. Three years later, she came back to life and married Liu Mengmei.Our modern modern writers, when they take this subject, the result is completely different.When the heroine reaches middle age, she looks back on her unfulfilled dreams when she was young, which is very touching.In modern times, Liu Mengmei came here on horseback, and she changed from a scholar to a staff officer.There are criticisms of the times, which is forgiving. There is one more thing to say.Adapting traditional dramas into modern dramas, using classical materials as materials, but using modern techniques to express them, such as dramas within dramas, is also quite modern.Since 1949, there have not been many good plays in mainland China, but Tian Han's "Guan Hanqing" also uses the technique of "play within a play". The effect of "A Dream in the Garden". Li Oufan mentioned Shakespeare's "The Prince's Revenge" and used the guards as an example. The last part of "A Dream in the Garden" is the three sisters together, which reminds me of Chekhov's "Three Sisters"... Bai Xianyong: This is my favorite drama... Bai Zhi: I don't know if it was intentional or not.Chekhov's three sisters are trapped by life, and your three sisters in "A Dream in the Garden" are trapped by time. Jin Hengwei: I would like to invite Professor Zhang Hongnian to speak.He is interested in expressing his opinion on the symbol of "A Dream in the Garden" being changed into a drama, which is of course meaningful and very important. Zhang Hongnian: I have read the novel many times, so I am very familiar with it.When I first started watching the play, I was a little disappointed. I saw two old gentlemen and old ladies muttering and talking for a long time, as if it had nothing to do with the play, and I felt that I couldn't see what I expected.After watching it for a while, I got used to it. I knew that I was watching a play, not a novel. As long as the adaptation is over, it will be interesting. I think the themes of the novel and the drama are a little different. The focus of the drama seems to be on the life of prostitutes in the Qinhuai River. Madam Qian said to General Qian, "I was born in a humble family, so I'm afraid I'm not good enough for you." The original novel's focus is not on this .In the play, "Xinxin Leshi Club" is used, which is not in the original novel, but it is added very well. The guests come to "wander in the garden and start a dream", "Who is the Xingleshi's courtyard", and the ending is to end up outside Mrs. Dou's house. Yes, the meaning of "Who's Courtyard" came out, just like Lin Daiyu heard someone sing "Who's Courtyard for Pleasure" before Lin Daiyu buried the flowers, which is a bit sad. The original novel attaches great importance to the symbol of the "moon" and is full of images of the "moon", such as "yugui", "guizhixiang", "yueyuehong" and "Jiang Biyue"; only "Lantian jade" uses "Lantian The allusion of "the sun is warm and the jade produces smoke", followed by "the sun, the sun" is consistent - you use the month, the month, the "month" in many places is very interesting, such as "Deyue Tower", for example, General Qian's Lan Tianyu said, "Except for the moon, which cannot be picked off, I will give it to you", as if the moon is a dream that cannot be obtained.The mansion of Dou in the novel is like Guanghan Palace, but Guanghan Palace cannot be seen in the play... Bai Xianyong: Let me add one more sentence.On the stage, there was a crescent moon at the beginning, and at the end of the song, the moon was in the middle of the sky... Li Oufan: I completely agree with Zhang Hongnian. In the middle part, the whole atmosphere should have the taste of Guanghan Palace... Zhang Hongnian: The control of lighting can create the feeling of a moon palace.During theatrical performances, there is a screen above the stage. If it is changed to a movie, there is "Mica Screen" in the original novel, and Mrs. Xu sang the story of Chang'e, "The Mica Screen has a deep candle shadow". It will turn naturally, and it will be much better than using a screen on the stage... Bai Xianyong: That is limited to conditions. I'm glad I dared to do such a serious drama. Zhang Hongnian: In addition, there is a section in the play that introduces Master Gu, the flute king.My builtanticipation, but came to nothing.Another point is the color of the clothes. Madam Qian's clothes are too green. The original novel is a very dark green, which can be compared with the vividness of the moon, moon, red, gold, and red. Madam Dou's original novel is "silver gray sprinkled with gold". The dress is not as beautiful as the one written in the original novel. The passages of "Folding Flowers" were added to the play, which were not in the original novel. They used a very subtle method to highlight their ambiguous relationship, which was very well done.In addition, the stories of Concubine Mei and Concubine Gui are not found in the original novel, but they can all be connected with the spirit of the original. Bai Xianyong: There was no Concubine Mei. Jin Hengwei: Professor Gao wrote a paper before, analyzing the social structure of Taiwan through the novels of Bai Xianyong and Yang Qingchu.When he arrived in Taiwan in June of this year (1982), it happened that "A Dream in the Garden" was being rehearsed. He originally wanted to see it, but he didn't.This time, I finally got a chance to fulfill my long-cherished wish.Professor Gao studies sociology, can you talk about it from the perspective of sociology? Gao Dimin: First of all, I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to Mr. Bai and Mr. Jin.Because when I was in Taiwan in June, "A Dream in the Garden" was being rehearsed, and I was so busy that I couldn't make it, so this is a rare opportunity. I think the play was pretty successful.In the beginning, the dialogue between the servants, you (referring to Li Oufan) think of "Prince's Revenge", and I think of "Thunderstorm". Isn't that how "Thunderstorm" started? Also, I think of "Death of a Salesman" "(by Arthur Miller), there are also many scenes using stream-of-consciousness techniques.I'm very glad that someone in Taiwan dared to perform such a serious drama, showing that you value the audience in Taiwan, the TV and movies in the past are too bad (everyone laughs).I think this is an experiment, this experiment is quite successful, I think maybe only people like Bai Xianyong... Bai Xianyong (inserting quickly): Such a fool... Gao Dimin: ... Only in this kind of drama can we make a success.The level of acting skills is also very high. Ms. Lu's performance moved me. Judging from Taiwan's past TV and movies, it is hard to imagine an actor who can perform such a play... My opinion may be a little too much... Bai Xianyong: Not at all excessive. Gao Dimin: In this play, there are many actors, good acting skills, and good lines. It can be seen that they respect the audience. This is a very good phenomenon. It also shows that Taiwan's society has developed to a higher level.I don't rely on art for a living. My iron rice bowl is sociology. In fact, it is still a glass rice bowl, so I want to talk about it from the perspective of sociology. Disgusted with people like "Taipei people" From 1977 to 1972, I taught English and American literature in Donghai, Taiwan, and it was at that time that I read it for the first time.I said to a very good student, I have been teaching Western literature, can you introduce me some modern literature in Taiwan? It just happened to be published, and he said, this is the best, you must read it.At that time, my Chinese was poor, and I couldn't understand it the first few times. After reading it, I was both moved and disgusted.I am not disgusted with Mr. Bai, but with "Taipei people". I think I, like you (referring to Bai Xianyong), both sympathize with them and criticize them for not facing reality. I think this novel reflects the state of Taiwanese society. On the one hand, their bodies are in Taiwan, but their hearts are in mainland China, in Nanjing, Guilin, Shanghai, and Suzhou. From 1979 to 1988, I studied at Fudan University in Shanghai. On the one hand, I taught Chinese modern literature, and I also introduced Taiwanese modern literature to them.It was only after I lived in Shanghai that I deeply understood the mentality of those people from other provinces in Taiwan, and I also understood their intention to rebuild Shanghai in Taiwan. The most lively areas are Zhongshan North Road and Nanjing Road in Taipei. The shops and restaurants are all from Shanghai. Signboard, when I returned to Taiwan in June, I saw more clearly and deeply that what they want to rebuild is not the present Shanghai, but the Shanghai of the 1930s and 1940s.The background of the novel is in the 1960s. Now in 1982, is the mentality of these "Taipei people" still the same as before? Because many of my Shanghai friends in Taiwan in the early 1970s always criticized Taiwan. Alas, this dish has no Goods from mainland China, this store is not as good as those from mainland China, everything is good from mainland China, they look down on Taiwanese products, only Shanghai ones are good.In fact, it is the same in mainland China. Shanghainese are picky everywhere they go. This phenomenon is only particularly evident in Taiwan. This time I went back to Taiwan and talked with people from other provinces. I think they are a little different. They don’t criticize Taiwan all the time now. It seems that Taiwan is a good place. Perhaps the Shanghai we imagined is not as good as Taiwan is now. When "A Dream in the Garden" is staged, I think most of the audience are young people. What do they think of these characters in Bai Xianyong's works? Do they think they are just their parents' generation—if their parents are from mainland China.In addition, I also want to know what you (referring to Bai Xianyong) think about the psychological changes of these people in the 1960s and 1980s? some young girls cry Bai Xianyong: Let me answer Mr. Gao's question first.It's true that there are many young people watching the theater this time, but another phenomenon is that there are also many middle-aged and elderly people.I think the people from other provinces in Taiwan you mentioned have all gone, all of them have gone, and I think their nostalgia is still there, which is different from the critical mentality you mentioned.When young people watch this play, I think the mood is the same as that of British young people watching Upstairs and Downstairs. Out of curiosity, they look at that kind of life, because it is far away, and their generation has never seen it; The younger ones are farther away, and they don’t understand that kind of life form at all, which may be beneficial instead. They don’t have the so-called critical psychology, which is equivalent to watching a historical drama... Gao Dimin: It's like the youths in mainland China watching "Thunderstorm". Bai Xianyong: Some young girls cried when they saw it.I think it's probably because of Ms. Lu Yan's acting skills and universal things, in addition to her social awareness, she also has feelings for lost love and lost youth in human nature. Jin Hengwei: Mr. Gao praised the actors' acting skills just now, and we thought why they couldn't act so well in other plays? Taiwan's performing arts circle should review it.This means that it is not that Taiwan does not have good acting talents, but that there are talents that cannot be used well. Gao Dimin: I think there is no market for those things that the boss thinks are good.The success of Mr. Bai's play this time may attract the attention of the bosses.I think the same is true for Lin Huaimin. In the past, there was no dance in Taiwan. There was no talent, no talent cultivation, and no market. When I went to Taiwan for research in 1977, it happened that "Cloud Gate Dance Anthology" performed. Wow! That sensation, I have watched it three or four times, and more than 99% of the audience are young people, who are willing to spend money to buy tickets! After the success of Lin Huaimin and Bai Xianyong, some big bosses may start to pay attention.A drama like this may not necessarily have a market in the United States. Bai Xianyong: What Mr. Gao said couldn't be more correct.In addition, I want to call out to the actors in Taiwan. Taiwan has good actors, good directors, good designers...all of them, but there are no good producers.They refuse to take money out, just like what you (to Gao) just said, they look down on the audience and don't respect the audience.We are confident that as long as the show is good, Taiwan will definitely not worry about the audience, even if no one has vision. The production process reflects Taiwanese theater concepts Jin Hengwei: Next, I would like to ask Mr. Lai Shengchuan to express some opinions. He specializes in drama and has directed five plays here. There must be many experts' opinions. Lai Shengchuan: I dare not be an expert.Since August, when I knew that "A Dream in the Garden" was going to be performed in Taipei, I desperately wrote letters back, asking my family and friends to send me information, so I collected a lot of information.Today I had the opportunity to watch this play, I am really happy and I have a lot of thoughts.I think Mr. Bai's contribution is too great. It can be said that he has made a big step forward in the development of Taiwanese opera.Because of this performance, we can also see the many difficulties in the development of drama in Taiwan.I want to discuss this play from the actual stage work. Just now Professor Li said that the crux of this play is the problem of tradition and modernity, but I don't think so.I think plays are the same as novels. "A Dream in the Garden" is a modern novel, and it is also a modern play when put on stage, so the big problem to be solved is not the integration of tradition and modernity, but the way of dealing with realism and fantasy.Teacher Bai handled it very well in the novel. I think that adapting the novel into a script and then moving it to the stage is to overcome this problem from beginning to end. Someone once said that "A Dream in the Garden" could not be turned into a drama. My consideration is not whether it is possible, but there are too many possibilities. The question is which one to choose? I remember Chekhov said a word, he said that the most important thing in life Some important things are not performed on the stage. We do not fall in love and kill each other fiercely every day, so everything on the stage is fake. Our daily life is just eating and dressing, and our fate is determined elsewhere up. "A Dream in the Garden" puts the fate-determining things in Madam Qian's monologue and film. This is Teacher Bai's way of solving this problem, and it is definitely a feasible way. But I share the same opinion as Professor Li, that film is a bit redundant.Because Mr. Bai's language about horses in the novel, especially about sex, is rich in symbols and images, but it can't show so many layers when it is shot on film.In addition, the part where Ms. Lu Yan walks into the smoke is quite good.My personal opinion may be stronger if it is expressed in other ways without film.Generally speaking, there must be a very special reason to show a film or play a slide show on the stage.Now this approach, I feel like apologizing for this play-oh, sorry, I can't lead two horses to perform on stage, so I have to show you a video. When Mr. Bai was talking just now, I heard you say: "Young people watch this movie..." Maybe the most ideal thing in Mr. Bai's subconscious is movies.In fact, the effect of the stage is very, very large, and there are many ways to do it.The production process of "A Dream in the Garden" to a considerable extent reflects Taiwan's theater concepts and mentality.To put it simply, I admire the actors very much. He (she) performed so well. I have some opinions on the stage design and director.Taiwan's stage plays still have the mentality of TV and movies, because there are too few stage plays, and we can't pay attention to the stage's ability to truly shock people.Of course, the space of Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hall in Taipei is too big and wide, it is not suitable for performing dramas or stage plays at all. It cannot be blocked, because if it is blocked, half of the tickets may not be sold.Judging from the stage design of the program list, Mr. Nie Guangyan is also caught between reality and fantasy.He designed a rather strange stage, with two pairs of sofas in a row in front, completely in a straight line, and a wall in the back is also a straight line, which shows that he wants to take the path of abstraction, but most of the plays in the living room are realistic. Some slashes would be better.There is another large space in the middle of the stage, which is of course completely conscious.Because Ms. Lu Yan needs to go to the front to monologue, a circle with a radius of one and a half meters is actually enough. There is no need to leave a circle as large as three to four feet and cut the two sets of sofas in half. The "You" drama does not require that the two groups of people on the sofa need to communicate and talk.On a line, people stand up and there is no contrast. This problem is most obvious when Mrs. Qian refuses to sing "Dream".This is the most important scene in the play. Ms. Lu is very involved in the play. We can see from the close-up shots on TV that Mrs. Qian’s refusal to sing explains many things, but everyone sits in the same line on the stage, a little far away. The smaller audience not only couldn't recognize who Madam Qian was, but also couldn't see the expression. What Taiwan needs most at present is stage language, so that actors can speak smoothly.In a play, rhythm is very important. Everyone has his own rhythm. If two people are on stage for a long time, one of them will definitely fall into the rhythm of the other. In "A Dream in the Garden", I feel that except for Ms. Lu Yan, everyone else falls into the rhythm of others. From the beginning to the end, it becomes a beat. At this time, the director needs to come forward to balance.In television or film, editing can be used to break up a single rhythm, but not on stage. Also, I have a little problem with theater management.I just heard from Mr. Bai that during the performance of "A Dream in the Garden", even the aisles were full of people. This is a big taboo. What should I do if there is a fire? What if there is an earthquake? Is it true that 2,500 people died? little thing.On the second point, I heard a child crying, calling Dad.Why let a child in? Bai Xianyong (laughs): That is the child of the administrator in the Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hall, we didn't have time to bring him up. Lai Shengchuan: This reflects that Taiwan's attitude towards drama is not serious enough. Gao Dimin: Great progress has been made! Lai Shengchuan: Yes.But I think there is still a lot that can be done. Jin Hengwei: Ms. Lu Yan came from Los Angeles, please say something... I hope Bai Xianyong finds someone to fund the film Lu Yan: Being able to participate in the performance this time, I have gained some valuable experience in acting.Because the Sun Yat-Sen Memorial Hall is not a place for stage plays, and "A Dream in the Garden" has many delicate inner feelings, in a large theater, the audience after ten rows cannot see the subtleties such as the actor's eyes, and they have to be exaggerated to make people feel happy. They understand, so it is very difficult.The role of Mrs. Qian has a background in Pingju opera, and she is a singer, but on the modern stage, Mr. Bai requires a beautiful posture, and every move and gesture must show her previous training.How can it be natural and not make people feel that we are doing figure, stylized movement, Mr. Bai and I have studied a lot. He comes to my hotel every day and teaches me a lot of postures and movements. After I absorb them, I will become my own.In the script written by Mr. Bai, my movements were very few. I watched this play again and found that many of them were taught by him. I hope (to Bai Xianyong) I can satisfy your request. Bai Xianyong: Great, the acting is great. Lu Yan: There are three protagonists in the play. From my observation, and of course the director's observation, my role is different from other characters only when it is expressed in the simplest way.有的时候我觉得自己可能过分了一点，把您的tempo节奏拉下来一点，tooslow…… 白先勇：我要插一句，整个tempo是要慢的，如果很快，就不是游园惊梦了。 卢燕：我看了这个录影以后，非常希望有机会再演一次。因为排戏和演出的时候，看不到自己，现在看了，才发现到：哎呀!这个地方我觉得已经givesomuch,butitsnotenough,有时候觉得挺够，subtle,itsnotenough，如果再有机会，我可以掌握得比较好一点。小说中很多细腻的地方，舞台上没有法子尽量发挥，希望白先生继续努力，找到愿意出钱把它拍成电影的人，那我就能好好的演了。 赖声川：只要有小型的剧场就可以了。在荧光幕上我们很清楚的看到特写镜头，好比宴会中，您从头到尾没有开口，可是完全演活了钱夫人…… 卢燕：哦!因为你知道她的心情，她坐在那里究竟有多么委屈，她从来没有这样过，我背对着观众，希望用背来告诉观众，我坐在那儿是多么的委屈，心里是多么的不自然，可是不知道能不能够表现出来。 白先勇：是这样子。所有的人都在那儿……，只有她一个人，背对观众，冷冷清清的，到她一转身讲出委屈的时候，感觉就出来了。这次能在国父纪念馆演出，已经是不得了了，soundsystem，音响效果完全是自己重新设计出来的，每个人身上都戴了一套wirelessmic，台上有二十几个microphone,还有一个人专管控制，有些人说话有回音……这个剧在技术上，复杂得不得了，灯光的变化有七十多次，每次都不能差一点。 卢燕：其实这不算是typical舞台剧，因为在一个三千人的场地，戴了mic，如果真的用舞台上的projection，效果反而不好。 这次和台湾的演员一起工作，我觉得他们的水准不比百老汇的差，可惜就是没有机会让他们表现，所以白先生要多写剧本。 金恒炜：八月份我在洛杉矶碰到卢燕女士，当时谈起您《游园惊梦》，我问您这个戏是不是空前绝后的，您说空前是可能，但不会绝后，您又说希望能演《永远的尹雪艳》，您已经跟白先勇要了这个角色了，我们希望《永远的尹雪艳》可以出来。 这次座谈，本来我还约了葛浩文(HowardGoldblatt)，他因为学校忙，不能到场，但他会来同我们一起吃晚饭，按照时间，大家现在就应当出发了，不过我们还可以延一下。本来最后要请白先生谈谈小说改编成戏剧遇到的一些困难，刚才开始时你已经谈了一点，是不是还愿意再谈一些? 避免文艺腔是编剧的最大雄心 白先勇：我想我就做个结论。这次把小说改成戏剧，很重要的一点，就是对话。我们戏剧几十年来的问题之一，就是对话不自然，一直都有文艺腔，我希望自己写的对话能做到没有文艺腔。文艺腔也不见得就能做得很诗意，因为原小说是很poetic，很lyrical的，所以我希望又抒情，对话又自然。中国的电影、话剧最令人不满意的，就是对话，我想这和“五四”以来的小说有很大的关系。避免文艺腔，是我这次编剧最大的雄心。 张洪年：我要说一句，我觉得一开始的时候，归亚蕾的舞台腔很重，她平常演戏根本不是这样说话，后来胡锦出场了，舞台腔更重，可是卢燕就不一样。后来想清楚，她们三人的delivery都很好，恰如她们戏中的身份。胡锦演的是还在戏中生活的一个人，窦夫人正一步步出来，而钱夫人已经完全出来了。一开始两个仆人的说话，我同意舞台腔是重了点。 白先勇：我写的时候就注意到这一点，我听他们念，听起来不对的就改掉。我很注意这个，也就教各位，希望是成功的。看台湾的电视剧，乃至曹禺的剧本，最不满意的，就是文艺腔太重。第二点，独白之长，恐怕是中国剧中第一次，使我捏了一把汗，实在舍不得删掉，我觉得独白是这个戏的精神，也晓得是个很大的冒险。第三点，把平剧运用到戏里，有很多是平剧动作。我们请了三位平剧老师，一位是徐炎之，他是台湾的昆曲泰斗；另外是梁秀娟和马骊珠，两位平剧界前辈，加上这几位演员在平剧界都很有修养…… 赖声川：这是创新之处，卢燕女士独白的时候，有很多平剧动作。 白先勇：我希望把平剧用上去。就是白之教授讲的戏中戏，我想用戏来点题，《游园惊梦》是不必说了，《贵妃醉酒》、《洛神》、都是为了点题，希望那历史层面藉戏来推广，这种用法，在中国戏剧里也是第一次，这几点，是相当冒险的，不知道演出后会是什么样子。我觉得平剧用得相当好，把气氛烘托出来，这全靠演员几十年的平剧修养，不然动作一出来不像就糟了，“穿帮了”。 我希望台湾的观众不再像Tom所说的受侮辱，也希望台湾在各方面都能再创新，我们只是第一步，可以做的事太多了。这次我们希望是Broadwaystyle，而不是实验剧式的。这次的演出，辛苦是非常辛苦，这几个月中可说每天都在挣扎斗争，可是报酬太大了，和这些演员、艺术家合作，是我最大的愉快，也希望这次起步之后，舞台剧后继有人，相信台湾的话剧还有前途的。 金恒炜：我们在很短的时间里，不但每位与会人士都发表了他个人的看法，也彼此交换了意见，实在是一个丰收。谢谢大家的光临。