Chapter 3 Conversation between Liang Rengong and British Press reporter (September 4, 1915)

A reporter from the English "Beijing News" went to Tianjin to visit Liang Rengong because of the preparations for the security meeting and the drafting of the Constitution.Mr. Ren suffered from red dysentery, and the reporter asked about the sick bed. Mr. Ren insisted on answering, and now the transcript of his conversation is as left. The reporter asked: In recent days, some people in the capital have initiated a security meeting to discuss the issue of the national system. What do you think, Mr. Yu?Liang Jun replied: "Since the past year, I have been wanting to devote myself to social undertakings for a long time, and I am tired of talking about politics. That is to say, when I used to like to talk about politics, I also used the second language to tell the public: I only talk about the political system." , regardless of state.I don't want to talk about the issue of the country's system, especially my humble self.

The reporter asked: Since it is said that only the political system is discussed, regardless of the national system, there should be no objection to the national system, whether it is a republic or a monarchy. Also, did you not try to argue for a constitutional monarchy a few years ago?Liang Jun replied: What I do is only discussing the political system, regardless of the national system. Those who often want to seek the reform of the political system under the current national system. The battle between the party and the pen has accumulated tens of thousands of words. Until August of 1911, after the Wuchang Uprising, I still wrote the book "Problems in the Construction of New China", saying that although the republic was a last resort, the throne should be kept in vain.Recently, a certain newspaper published Dr. Goodenough's article discussing the benefits of the republic, and cited the chaos in Central America and South America as evidence. All of these arguments and evidence are what I said ten years ago. What Gu said is ten times more detailed and thorough. Books such as "Xinmin Congbao" and "Anthology of Drinking Ice Room" have been circulated in the world, no less than hundreds of thousands of copies, which can be repeated.That is to say, when I wrote "Issues in the Construction of New China" in September of 1911, Chen Sanyi was the most boring thought in wanting to accommodate the emperor: one is to keep the Qing Dynasty, the other is to support the sage, and the third is to seek the empress of the Ming Dynasty.Although this is a ridiculous talk, I was afraid of the danger of changing the national system at the time, and I was in a hurry. Now I am talking about changing the national system for the second time, and I still use the three meanings as the research data.At that time, how could I have loved the monarchy and would offend everyone? I thought it was a supporter?I think that the state system and the government system are absolutely incompatible. If constitutional government can be implemented, then it doesn’t matter whether the monarch is a republic;There is no choice between the two, it is better to stick to the current foundation, and Xu Tu builds an ideal political system on it, which is the consistent spirit of my argument for decades.Husband and the world are also heavy weapons, and they are placed and moved repeatedly, and the damage is so many that I am afraid of it.Therefore, on the one hand, we always want to promote the ideal political system, and on the other hand, we always want to respect the current state system.There is no other reason for this, except that the phenomenon of change in the political system is often evolutionary, and the phenomenon of change in the state system is often revolutionary.It is said that revolution can benefit the country and the people, I have never heard of it before.That is why I have never opposed the republic from the beginning, and I have never opposed the monarchy from the beginning, although I have always opposed revolution, saying that the greatest misfortune of a country is revolution.

The reporter asked: What is the rationale for the statement of the Chou Anhui faction that a republic cannot establish a constitution, but a monarchy can establish a constitution?Liang Jun replied: I am ignorant and really do not understand this. I seek the theories of Chinese and foreign scholars from ancient and modern times but cannot understand it. I seek the facts of ancient and modern countries in China and foreign countries but cannot understand it.Today's China wants to change from autocracy to constitutionalism. First, it depends on the sincerity of the sovereign in supporting constitutionalism. Second, it depends on the ability of the people to use constitutionalism.It is said that these two changes are due to the change of the state system, and I can't understand it.

The reporter asked: Dr. Goodnow said that if China wants to change the state system, there must be three conditions. The first condition is that the majority of outstanding people in the country do not object. Is this condition expected to be realized?Liang Jun replied: When the state system must be changed, how can there be more room for opposition?Except for the chaotic party who took advantage of the excuse to make trouble, there is no one who speaks out against it, and I dare to say that.Although, if the state system is changed once, the country will lose some honest men who are enthusiastic about politics, and I dare to say that.Since the founding of the Republic, although there are many people who have achieved great success, there are quite a few people who are willing to abandon those who are useful.Those who know it may not feel sorry for the country, but scholars have their own ambitions, and there is nothing they can do.If there is a second change of the national system, those who deserted the previous time will definitely not come back, and those who deserted after this may be even more ignorant.Goer, it is not the blessing of the country.

The reporter asked: Can the matter of changing the state system become a reality in the future, and what is the intention of the President, have you heard anything about it?Liang Jun replied: Whether this matter can become a fact is hard to say, but it is inevitable based on theoretical precedents.According to the principle of mechanics, where there is movement, there must be reaction. There is no escape from this principle.Since there was the first change of the national system, there should be a second change of the national system, and the reason for this change is not the current one, but the previous one.In the "Xinmin Congbao" and the revolutionary party theory, I said that seeking republic through revolution must ultimately be against imperialism; seeking constitutionalism through revolution must be against autocracy after all.At that time, I was talking about this, but the people of the country didn't listen to it anymore, but spread it and soaked it, so as to achieve today's situation.Today, with the same argument, many foreign doctors say it from time to time, but the smelly rot is suddenly miraculous, and it is surprising to study it, especially when you know what I predicted ten years ago, what the foreign doctors said today can only be described Half of the ear, the other half, I just hope that my words are not right.If my husband is the President, I will take the oath twice, and the whole country will hear about it. The order is brilliant, and it is just three or five. Even if I discuss this issue with others in general, I am absolutely unwilling to rule on my own. I have also expressed it repeatedly. Those who use this to question our great president are probably disrespectful.

The reporter asked: A faction in the Preparatory Committee said that Dr. Goodenough really advocated this theory, but this reporter said that he did not advocate this when he visited the doctor. The husband and the doctor have been friends for a long time. Have you tried it or discussed it?Liang Jun replied: "This time when the doctor came back, I had a visit. I was in Tianjin, but I didn't see each other."However, the doctor wrote a letter to the Constitution Drafting Committee, and what he said was all about the national constitution, which is beyond his reach. The reporter asked: Mr. Wen rarely attended the constitution drafting meeting, why?Liang Jun replied: I traveled to the south once, felt the heat, continued to be ill, and continued to recover, and I may not be able to attend in the middle, it is not because of other reasons.Moreover, the previous discussions have not reached the content of the constitution, and the occasional absence will not hurt. After that, I sincerely hope to work with my colleagues to quickly draft this kind of national fundamental law, and talk about fulfilling the national obligations just in case.