Chapter 5 Life Literature and History

This is a lecture given at the History Department of Stanford University in San Francisco on August 22, 1981. Chairman, gentlemen and ladies: It is a great honor to meet you at Stanford University, one of the highest universities in California.I was so excited, on the plane from Phoenix to San Francisco, I imagined meeting you all today.My mood at that time is exactly the same as my mood now.For me, this is a very honorable and legendary encounter.The topic given to me by the chairman today is too big, and I feel very afraid to take it.When I was in New York, I received a call from Ms. Li Lingyao telling me about this topic. I am very grateful, but I feel that I am not competent.The day before yesterday, I was in Phoenix City, and Mr. Zhai Mengbin reminded me again on the phone. As a result, I not only felt incompetent, but also very frightened, because I was not qualified to speak on such a big topic.The reason why I accept it is because I have such courage. I am willing to put forward my own thoughts on this topic, that is, what kind of enlightenment does she give us in China's 5,000-year history?Before I start the topic, I would like to report another impression, that is, the Indians—the masters of the United States, the real aborigines of the Americas—the impression they gave me.I have visited Indian ruins, I have visited Indian reservations, and I have met Indians.Although the time was so short and there were so few conversations, the impression was very deep.Especially once when I was in Carefree, I went to an Indian ruin nearby by a 40-minute drive, and saw the Indian handicrafts. Their current handicrafts were compared with the handicrafts of six hundred years ago, whether it was form or pattern, weaving techniques And all materials, almost exactly the same.From this small handicraft, I think and understand what kind of fate they are currently facing.We can't imagine that such a great nation with a long history will linger on in the reserved area given to them by the US government.What happened to the Indians themselves, their sad history, how did they react after being deceived, slaughtered, and humiliated?I have an impression myself: that their reaction was dismal.In my opinion, what the Indians are currently facing is not an economic or moral problem, but the threat of extinction.I am not a prophet, not a fortune teller, I just use my own impressions, and various deeds told to me by ordinary friends as the basis.Ladies and gentlemen, can we guess like this, in another hundred years, five hundred years, one thousand years, maybe long, maybe short, the Indians will one day be extinct.Because they refuse to absorb modern civilization.Although they currently have their reservations, they do not invade others, and others do not invade them, but this reservation belongs to the U.S. government, or it can be said that it was bestowed on them by the white people.Of course, in theory and emotionally, we can say that it was not a reward, it was won by the Indians themselves, and it is the native land of the Indians themselves.But if our feelings are not literary or poetic, but rational, we know that this reservation comes from the grace of white Americans, and it can also be said that it comes from the attitude of redemption of white Americans.So, if one day, the population of the United States increases and those reservations are needed, I think the fate of the Indians will be very bleak.Should we have this kind of view: the downfall of a nation is a very big thing, but it is not impossible.Whenever I see the ruins of the Indians and the stagnation of their culture, I feel like a knife is piercing my heart. I can't help thinking, will the Chinese nation be like the Indians one day?A friend said that this is impossible because the Chinese nation has a long history and such a large population.I think this is just a kind of emotional comfort. If 5,000 years of history can guarantee the immortality of a nation, what is the theoretical basis?The universe is vast, and 5,000 years is just an instant. Humans still have 500 billion years to live. Compared with 500 billion years, 5,000 years is a very short proportion.Also, the size of the population is not enough to determine the rise and fall of a nation; when the Europeans first landed in America, the Indian population was also very large, far exceeding that of the whites.

This emotional ignorance made me very sad, wondering if we Chinese had encountered some problems.A very prominent confusion is, why has China not been strong so far?We have all kinds of strong conditions.Then, it must be the conditions that make us not strong, far more than the conditions that make us strong.Although I don't have a teacher to study history, I use the local method of steelmaking (laughter), but I do it very seriously.Now I will report to you my experience in indigenous steelmaking, provide you with some references, and ask for your advice. Here I am reminded of a story. A company in the United States sent an employee of his company to Europe for investigation. After several months of investigation, he returned and submitted a report to his company authorities.According to the report, Europe is very backward both in terms of technology and management, and is not as good as the United States.The report was about one or two hundred pages long and submitted to the board of directors. The board of directors immediately passed a motion to fire the employee.The chairman said that the purpose of our teaching you to investigate is to teach you to discover the strengths of Europe, not to teach you to discover their weaknesses. Our strengths do not need you to discover or remind us. What we need is to understand that they are better than us. We need to discover our own shortcomings, and then we can improve. We don’t listen to the voice of self-praise. If we listen to this voice too much, it will make us numb and intoxicated. It will reduce the quality of our products and cause our company to go bankrupt. .

We can say that this story is a fable.However, in any case, this story gives us a lot of inspiration.So what I want to report today is not the strengths of our Chinese nation, but to explore the reasons that hinder the progress of our Chinese nation and prevent our China from becoming stronger until now.At lunch just now, a few friends talked about studying, and everyone was worried. The children are going to college, and they have to pay a lot of money.We have a discovery like this: No matter how hard or difficult the Chinese are, they always send their children to school.This is not necessarily the case with some ethnic groups. Your horizons are much broader than mine. This is one of the strengths of the Chinese nation that I discovered.I think there is no need to mention the advantages of this kind of Chinese, because people mention it too much, and we don't mention it, it still exists.So today's report only talks about the shortcomings of us Chinese.You can't save yourself by talking about the advantages. Only by recognizing the shortcomings can you save yourself.

First, although China has a history of 5,000 years, over the past 5,000 years, the feudal power that ravages human dignity has not decreased day by day, but has increased day by day.During the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period, the emperor and his ministers sat on the same tatami mat as equals.Until the second century BC, Shu Suntong of the Western Han Dynasty formulated the court rituals. It was when Liu Che was the emperor, that is, when the Confucian school was in power, Shu Suntong formulated this court rituals, making the emperor a very solemn, Very solemn, even terrifying authority.When ministers meet with the emperor, there are guards watching over them. Anyone whose attitude is not up to standard, such as raising his head occasionally, will be punished.Such a change made the king stay away from the people and keep a distance from the people.However, under the emperor, ministers always have a seat.By the Song Dynasty in the tenth century, even this seat began to disappear.Gone are the days when emperors and prime ministers sat and discussed Taoism.This is a small change, but it symbolizes great significance, that is to say, the distance between the monarch and his ministers, officials and people is getting farther and farther.In the Ming Dynasty in the 14th century, the dignity of human nature was completely damaged. No one could imagine that a king would be so hostile to the people of his country.The Ming Dynasty established a concept of "father of the king", that is, the king is the father, that is to say, the emperor is equal to your father.Once this concept is established, the abuses it produces are endless.One of the most terrifying symptoms is the court stick.From the prime minister to the common people, as long as the guy who governs you thinks you have violated the law, he can grab your limbs, torture you on the golden palace or the court, that is, at the seat of the government, and torture you. The skin was broken and the blood flowed.This kind of imperial staff system, this combination of monarch and father thoughts, almost wiped out the self-esteem of the Chinese people, and almost destroyed the personality of the Chinese people.The only way for the Chinese to maintain their self-esteem is not to shout when receiving the imperial scepter (laughter).There are often strong officials who, when they are beaten, shake their heads on the ground in pain, wipe off their beards, but refuse to shout.This was the only thing people in that era could do, but it couldn't be raised to the level of resistance.

We often say that the Han nationality is a nation with a very strong assimilation ability, so far, it is true; we can see that there have been several times in history, all the nations that invaded China were finally assimilated.For example, in the earliest Northern Wei Dynasty, when Emperor Xiaowen Tuobahong, he reformed and adopted the method of the Han nationality to govern state affairs.It is also like the Manchu Qing Dynasty, who followed the path of Tuoba Hong's unity.In the two largest invasions by foreign nations, the Han nationality won in the end.However, we should notice that although they all absorbed and inherited Han culture in the end, what they absorbed was the worst part of Han culture, so the ending had to be the worst.The result of absorbing Han culture did not make their nation stronger, but instead made their nation and our Han nation degenerate together.For example, Emperor Tuobahong of the Northern Wei Dynasty announced that Xianbei people could not speak Xianbei dialect, but all must speak Han Chinese, and they had to change their surnames into Han. Then they adopted the feudal system and court system of the Han nationality, and even adopted the family status and family status of the scholar-bureaucrats. system, these were not available before the Northern Wei Dynasty.They used to be nomads in the wilderness, with a big heart, and the distance between the superior and the humble was very weak, but now they are destroyed by human power.

Audience: Excuse me, what is the court rod? : The court stick is a spanking (laughter). Four eunuchs stretched out the limbs of the officials lying on the ground, tied them up, then covered their heads with sacks, and two eunuchs held down the thighs.When the emperor announces that the imperial staff is one hundred, then hit one hundred.Usually the court rod cannot exceed one hundred, if it exceeds one hundred, you will die under the rod.Those accomplices who execute the imperial staff will watch their words and expressions, if the emperor just hates you and has no intention of killing you, then one or two hundred blows will not be fatal.If the emperor must put you to death, then thirty or forty blows can also kill you.Under normal circumstances, officials or ordinary people often use bribes when accepting court rods. It sounds loud and looks painful, but it will not cause death. , that is to say, pain alone will not kill you.These men are trained to wrap a piece of paper full of straw and beat until the straw crumbles and the paper doesn't break.This is a cruel punishment that can beat you so that no scars can be seen on the surface, but in fact the muscles and bones inside have been broken.Under the court rod system, human dignity was completely destroyed.In the 14th and 15th centuries, Europe was already in the era of the Renaissance, but China was practicing court rods, which made people sigh.

Let's come back to the topic just now. Mongolia is a very strange nation. After it invaded China, it took an attitude of resistance to Han culture.Just as they came to Middle-earth ninety years ago, they will leave Middle-earth ninety years later.For Han culture, it has not been infected at all.After the establishment of the Manchu Qing government, it inherited the political system and social structure of the Ming Dynasty in the Great Dark Age of China, which had a corrosive effect on the new regime.As a result, although the Qing Dynasty had such a powerful military force, after a hundred years of political corruption, in the end, it was out of control.The concept of human rights has been destroyed day by day by this long-standing feudal system, feudal society, and feudal forces, and it is almost wiped out, which has had a great impact on the Chinese people.The self-esteem of the Chinese cannot be kept intact. If there is any reservation, there is only the spirit of Ah Q as Mr. Lu Xun said.I think emotional satisfaction is different from inner fulfillment.For example, when I visit your home and see that your house is so beautiful and the owner is so knowledgeable, I admire you and envy you. When I go back, I will think, I will work hard, and one day I will be like you , have such good knowledge and live in such a good house.If I walked out of the house and said, living in such a good house, who knows whether his money was stolen or robbed, I hope he will burn down in a fire tomorrow (laughter).Our national psychology has been suppressed for a long time, so we have to use this emotion to balance ourselves.

The second point to report is that in China's 5,000-year history, there are only three golden ages.The first golden age was the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period. At that time, various ideas and various ways of life were paralleled.The second golden age should be in the Tang Dynasty, the rule of Emperor Taizong Li Shimin's Zhenguan, and the middle period of the reign of Tang Minghuang Li Longji, but about a hundred years.The third golden age should be from the 1760s to the middle of the Qing Dynasty in the 1860s.In the 5,000-year history of China, there are only these three golden ages.For the other four thousand years, there were wars almost every year, or even every day.A Western scholar once made a statistic that confirmed that since the beginning of human history, there have been wars every year.This phenomenon is even more the same in Chinese history. I have done this kind of statistics myself, and I wrote the first draft of "Chronicle of Wars and Chaos in the Past Dynasties of China", and found that there were wars every year in Chinese history.However, statistics based on China and the world have completely different meanings, because the world is too big, and China is too small when compared with the world.Especially when China's territory reached the Ming Dynasty, it was the same size as the Qin Dynasty in the second century BC, and half smaller than the current territory.

In such a small territory, if there are wars every year, and they are only recorded wars, and the unrecorded wars are not within the scope of our statistics, it can be seen that the turmoil in China is very terrible.There will always be 30 to 50 years of chaos during the transition from one dynasty to another, and another 20 years from the seizure of power to the stability of power.Then the regime became corrupt again, the resistance forces resurged, and the great chaos came again, falling into a vicious circle of chaos and chaos.It can be said that Chinese people have been growing up in corruption, chaos, war, killing, and poverty for a long time, even forever. Therefore, Chinese people always feel insecure and anxious.We have such a long history and such a large country. The Chinese people should be very open-minded and open-minded. It is only because of long-term poverty, killing, and jealousy that our minds are very narrow.I just hope that today can get by. I don't know how things will happen tomorrow, and I don't know how long the war will last.The war affected the water conservancy. After the water conservancy project was destroyed, there was a severe drought, and after the drought, there was a large locust plague.In history, the word "human cannibalism" has appeared dozens of times and hundreds of times.We think that we are a highly civilized nation, so how can this kind of barbaric behavior of cannibalism happen? We have suffered too many disasters, and we have suffered for too long.Not to mention the nation, but personally, if a person has been poor for too long and suffers too much, he will have a psychological reaction of distrust towards everything.A few days before I was going to be released from prison, an official called me and told me: "Report good news, you are going to go out." I said: "What tofu!" (Laughter) The official said: "Why do you Don’t believe it? Can I lie to you?” I asked him to show me proof, because I believed too much and was deceived too much, and I was disappointed every time.A man who has been in trouble for too long has a right not to believe the good news (laughter).The same is true for a nation. After suffering for too long, people think that after a new dynasty comes, they can do whatever they want, but almost never fail.Some people ask, why doesn't China have great buildings, but foreign countries do?That's because Chinese buildings are made of wood, and it will rot away.I don't think that's the reason. The reason is that after a new dynasty rises, it will be burned with a fire (laughter).The Qin Dynasty left such a good Efang Palace, but Xiang Yu thought it was the anointing of the people and the tyranny of the people, so he set it on fire.After a few days, he built one himself (laughter).In a few days, another group of people came and said that you are the fat of the people and the anointing of the people, a tyranny, and burned it down.This kind of immature emotion is enough to cause long-term poverty, so that the self-esteem of the Chinese people cannot be established, and the Chinese people cannot be broad-minded.There is an adage that says, how difficult it is to make a country thrive (laughter), we must first understand that adages are all emotional, and under certain conditions, they are the truth, and they are not scientific. If there are too many "difficulties", there will be no way to prosper the country (laughter).You must have a good understanding of the maxim, for example, "the mourning army will win", but that is not necessarily the case, many mourning soldiers fail.A large army is finally wiped out, which one is not a mourner (laughter).For example, Carthage fought against Rome. In the end, almost all the country was defeated. It can be said that they were fighting while crying, and finally they were wiped out by Rome.The mourning soldiers do not necessarily win, nor does the country prosper when it is difficult, but it means that the country can prosper only when it is difficult (laughter).As for China, there are too many difficulties. Fortunately, the difficulties are not so many that we can be wiped out, but they are already so many that we lose our spirituality.

Third, we have discovered from history that there is a very strange phenomenon in Chinese society that does not exist in other countries. It is the so-called "official circle", which comes from the imperial examination system.One thing I don’t know if you agree or not is that Japan has absorbed all Chinese culture. It has absorbed everything from China, from tatami mats and wooden clogs (laughter) to government organizations and political systems, but there is only one thing that is missing. Absorption enabled Japan to suddenly become stronger during the Meiji Restoration without causing resistance. This is the imperial examination system.China's imperial examination system has its functions and contributions, but it also created China's officialdom.Officialdom is a very strange cobweb, you can't see it, you can't touch it, but you can feel that you have entered the Pansi Cave.The word "bureaucrat" in China cannot be translated by Bureaucrats.Chinese bureaucrats have their own characteristics. The object of allegiance is definitely not the country, and it is definitely not the leader. He is only loyal to the people who serve as officials.The government of the dynasty can be changed, but the officialdom remains unchanged.Therefore, the Manchus ruled the Tibetans, the Mongols, and the Hans, all targeting the weaknesses of that nation.As for the Tibetans, they use Lamaism, invite lamas to Beijing, treat them as uncles, and do what they can with utmost respect.As for the Mongols, they used marriage means to marry all the princesses to the Mongolian princes, and the sons they gave birth to were my nephews (laughter), and they raised those little princes in the palace since they were young, and they called me uncles. Call me father-in-law, when you grow up, how can you oppose your uncle and father-in-law.Manchurian princes and princesses will never marry a Han Chinese.The way they rule the Han people is the imperial examination. They know that the Han people have a problem, that is, they are easy to be officials (laughter).I have the hope of becoming an official for you, and you will be obedient and surrender all your national consciousness and human dignity.Therefore, officialdom is a mysterious social level, and officialdom has special behavioral standards and values.He was not loyal to the emperor, and if the emperor changed, he would still be his official (laughter).He is not afraid of the country's ruin. If the country dies, as long as you give him an official job, he will still be his official.Therefore, the world of flowers and flowers is just a place for officials to display their power, and naturally formed a very complicated relationship between officials and officials protecting each other.I don't know if you have read a book. This is a book that analyzes the structure of Chinese officialdom. You should not read this book with a literary eye, but read it with a social problem eye.Because of the establishment of this kind of relationship in the officialdom, the relationship between people in our China has become more subtle.I think you have been in the United States for so long, have you found that the interpersonal relationship in the United States is much simpler than that in China?There is a saying in China that it is easy to do things but difficult to be a human being.What is it to be a human being?It's just whether the relationship between people is good or not.There is a Peking opera "Judging the Head and Stabbing Soup", there is a judge, another juror, and another beautiful young widow whose husband has been murdered.During the trial, she was crying while holding a human head. If the head was true, the case would be closed. If it was false, the case would cause serious entanglements and many people would die.The lord of the jury liked this beautiful young widow, and the woman suggested to him that she could marry him, so the lord of the jury insisted that the head was real (laughter).When the woman saw that the case could be closed, she expressed that she did not want to marry him, but Mr. Tang immediately insisted that the head was fake (laughter).We Chinese are always in this kind of officialdom relationship, going back and forth with unclear right and wrong, sometimes the head is real, and sometimes the head is fake, and no one can figure out whether the head is real or fake (laughter).The officialdom has brought us so many troubles. I think that many experts and scholars here have returned to China to do work, or may return to China to do work in the future. I think the difficulties you encounter are not the work itself.For example, if you want to build an atomic furnace, if you don’t know how to do it, then this is a work problem; but if you want to build an atomic furnace, there is a screw missing, and the person who manages the screw has asked for leave.He has a cold, so of course he has to ask for leave. You can't say that you can't catch a cold, but in fact, he didn't have a cold, but went to play mahjong (laughter).Why does he play mahjong?That's because your relationship with him is not good, and your atomic furnace can't be built, so what does it have to do with me?I don't care if the atomic furnace doesn't work or it blows up (laughter).If you say that the country has been hurt, it will be hurt if it is hurt, and I will still be my official.This is the officialdom landscape, a sickness accumulated over thousands of years, which lasted until the Northern Expedition of the National Revolutionary Army, that is, in 1928.However, the military expedition to the north and the political invasion to the south are in fact the poisonous invasion of official circles to the south.Originally, the relationship between revolutionary comrades was very pure, but once involved in the officialdom, it became very complicated, so complicated that a healthy person could not bear it.As a result, interpersonal relationships in society have become like super glue and paste. Once it is stuck, you can't take it off if you want to, or shake it off if you want to.I don’t know if you have discovered this after returning to your country. For example, if you return to your country and your friends invite you to dinner, if you dare to refuse, the friendship will be wiped out from then on.This is the habit of the officialdom, and the relationship between people becomes very distorted.why?Why does he need this kind of official relationship?Because this can make his official position more stable.A friend of mine went back to Taiwan, and some irrelevant people invited him to dinner, and after the meal, they asked him to bring some things to the United States (laughter).It's not that he intends to make an exchange with you, but a very natural reaction, because after eating a meal, you become friends, and friends will help each other (laughter).The phenomenon in the officialdom is like this. For example, if you build an atomic furnace, this atomic furnace is very dangerous and cannot be touched, but he will think that we are all friends, so it doesn't matter if we touch it (laughter).Often a person becomes two kinds of people before becoming an official and after becoming an official.This sentence itself is illogical. It can only be said that when a person's official nature is too prosperous, his human nature will disappear.He has no humanity, but only the official nature of being an official. He must wait until one day he retires before his humanity can be restored (laughter).Because of the existence of officialdom, China has a special way of doing things, which makes the track of our cultural development often deviate from the direction.

The fourth report, I think Confucius himself is a great person, knowledgeable and compassionate, and has made great contributions to society.Confucianism and the Confucian school of thought developed from Confucius had a far-reaching influence on the Chinese people, which has been affecting us to this day.But the basic spirit of Confucianism is conservative. Strictly speaking, Confucianism is not only very conservative, but also opposed to progress.Confucianism, "Confucianism", was the master of ceremonies used in sacrificial ceremonies before the Spring and Autumn Period, because he understood the sacrificial procedures. When encountering important national ceremonies, such people must provide opinions. Of course, such people are ancient in nature.At that time, there were no new rites and music, and the ancient rites and music had to be used. In order to maintain his job, he had to maintain his career stability (laughter), so he had to respect the ancients.We don't use the ugly term Chonggu, but we can say that they are very conservative.This spirit has created a strong conservative consciousness in China, and under this consciousness, Chinese society has lost the motivation to innovate, and thus has no ability to self-examine, self-reflection, and self-adjustment.My friends sometimes talk about the United States. I’m sorry, but I’m playing tricks in front of you “old America”. Killing, mistreatment of black people, discrimination against Chinese people.I once visited Angel Island and saw the words and tragic poems left by the Chinese.Are these shortcomings of the United States real?Of course it was true, and even worse than I could have imagined.But we should pay attention to another question is, do they have the ability to correct?Do you have the capacity for self-reflection?Is it better now than before?If not, we feel that this country has no future; if there is, we feel that this country is great and full of lively life.There used to be hanging trees in the United States, but not anymore. The United States used to use water dungeons for prisoners, but now when arresting people, they will read the articles of the constitution to them.The United States has mistakes and biases, but the United States has the ability to correct its mistakes.However, our Chinese nation does not have this ability.Long-term advocacy of the ancients, not seeking to make progress, and being conservative will lose this ability.Historically, Shang Yang was a legalist. What kind of country did his reforms turn Qin into?Before the change, the life of the people was that fathers, brothers and sisters, big and small, all slept on the same kang. Shang Yang made them live a civilized life, forbidding parents and children to share the same room, and not allowing brothers and sisters to share the same room, telling them that they must be separated. Sleeping, it can be seen how barbaric and backward a country they were at that time.Shang Yang's reform did not mean creating an atomic bomb, nor was it a material reform, but a basic change in the system, society, education and culture. He succeeded.At that time, it was the fourth century BC, and for more than two thousand years now, China has not made another breakthrough.Everyone who wanted to break through ended up ruined and their family ruined.Shang Yang’s fate was split into pieces and his body torn apart by five horses. The Confucian school often publicized the fate of these reformers to deter the progress of the Chinese people (laughter).One of the best reformers in history, Wang Anshi, was impeccable in his moral knowledge and work ability, but his reforms encountered so much resistance.Like Zhang Juzheng, his experience was as miserable as Shang Yang's. Immediately after his death, his home was seized, and his son starved to death; until Kang Youwei's Reform Movement of 1898, he could not succeed.There is a saying in the Confucian school: "The benefits are not ten, and the law does not change." This sentence means that without 100% benefits, there must be no reforms. This concept is the biggest reason why the Chinese nation cannot progress and become strong.There is no ten-tenth benefit in any change, as long as there is a five-and-a-half-tenth benefit, it is the greatest benefit. For example, if you want to drive from Stanford to San Jose now, I don’t think you can drive there, because the car may get into an accident; you should go on foot, because it’s too expensive to drive (laughter).What do you say about this view, and to drive a car, you have to learn to drive first, which is a waste of time. If you don’t bump into people on the street, they will bump into you (laughter).If you walk, you can not only save money, but also improve your health, and there is no danger. If you listen to me, will you stop walking tomorrow and not drive?In fact, as long as there are 55% or 51% interests, we should change. It will never be possible to demand 100% interests.Last night, several friends talked about the problem of phoneticization of Chinese characters. Some people said it was wrong, and some said it was wrong.Some objected emotionally, some opposed theoretically.But if you want it to change, you will get 100% benefits. There is no such strange thing in the world.Because the spirit of Confucianism itself is conservative, an emperor of the Song Dynasty once asked Sima Guang whether he must change it. If the Western Han Dynasty did not change Xiao He's law, would it be okay?Sima Guang replied, of course, it is precisely because there are too many ignorant people and too many good-for-nothing people who change randomly that make thieves and robbers rampant. If it has remained unchanged, the good customs of the Yao and Shun era will remain until today .Ladies and gentlemen, this kind of person is really a thief hindering China's progress.Sima Guang was a veteran in the officialdom. As soon as he became prime minister, he abolished all Wang Anshi's new laws, including the recruitment law that had already had a very significant effect.Su Dongpo and Fan Zhongyan's son Fan Chunren both raised objections, and Sima Guang immediately turned his back.This shows that the stumbling blocks of the times are right and wrong. They do not consider the interests of the people, nor are they loyal to the head of state, but only loyal to their own interests. Sima Guang is not a politician, but an official gangster. The fifth point is that too many people have harmed China... (At this time, the recording was interrupted due to changing the tape.) Civil wars of changing dynasties followed by massive population increases and repeated misery: war, killing, death.Some people say that the United States is a very good place with a high standard of living. I don’t know if you have noticed that if the population of the United States increases by one billion and the population of mainland China is moved here, the United States will have 1.2 billion. What will happen? Condition? (Laughter) The population issue is very important. If China wants to be strong, the population must be reduced as much as possible.There is a saying: more people make it easier to work, but fewer people eat better buns.Mo means steamed buns and bread.In the past, it was easier to work with more people.But now, it is useless to have a large population. One hundred people is not as good as one computer (laughter).Few people eat buns, this sentence is a very simple truth.With your family income, you can raise two or three children and still be able to maintain a life above the middle level. If you accidentally give birth to two hundred children, how can you maintain your life (laughing).Living expenses, tuition fees, clothing expenses, etc. What expenses do you use?China's population is too large, the poverty is too deep, the officialdom is too strong, and the competition is too fierce. These reasons make us Chinese present a phenomenon: dirty, chaotic, noisy, and never-ending internal strife (laughter).The Chinese speak aggressively (laughter), which makes us lose our manners.When I was in Los Angeles, someone asked me what my impression of the United States was, and I said that I think the United States is a country of propriety and righteousness.Ask me again if China is a country of propriety and righteousness?I think China is definitely not a country of propriety and righteousness (laughing).The Chinese are so rough that they are almost ready to give each other a head-on blow at any moment.You must be able to find that the Chinese seldom smile. Is it because there are too many disasters, too much pain, and too long a time of sorrow, so that the Chinese cannot smile.So I think the United States is a happy nation, at least what I have seen and come into contact with is a very happy, kind, and helpful nation.The Chinese are more worried, always full of hostility, and very worried about their own interests.So we're always in a state of panic, staring at them in self-defense (laughter).Some people say that America has racism.Of course there is racial discrimination. In fact, it is not limited to the United States. There is racial discrimination in any country, but the United States at least tolerates us, not only our people, but also our impoliteness, dirty, messy, noisy, and non-stop internal affairs. fight. The above is a bit of my experience, which I put forward without any concealment, and it is also a faithful report I made to the directors after I came back to the United States for "investigation" (laughter). There is no need to talk about our advantages, because after all, it still exists; if we don’t talk about it, it won’t go away.I bring up our shortcomings so that we can prompt self-reflection.这些缺点已经非常严重，在我们酱缸文化里，我们面临这么多复杂的问题，应该怎样的反应呢？我略为报告我的意见。 这些问题，如果它是问题的话，我们最重要的反应，应该是培养我们的思考能力。几千年下来，一切东西都由别人──圣人或有权势的大官之类，替我们想好了，自己不需要想，而且也不敢想。要怎样做才对呢，中国人似乎需要练习自己去做傻子。洛克菲勒的儿子到新几内亚去探险，被土人吃掉了，这件事发生之后，台北报纸登出来，很多人说，有福不知道享福，要是我，我就不会去。这次我在凤凰城一位美国朋友家里住了五六天，主人的十六岁女儿Margret，到洪都拉斯去帮助当地人，使他们了解眼睛卫生的常识。洪都拉斯的卫生跟中国相比的话，要比我们还差，当地非常的脏，以致这个女孩一觉醒来，竟然发现有一头猪跟她睡在一起。我在那里的时候，她恰巧服务结束，回家向她妈妈报告，眉飞色舞地说，明年她还要再去，因为那个地方太贫穷落后了，需要去帮助他们，她母亲立刻鼓励她再去。我们中国人也许会想，要是我的话，我才不去呢。可是那个美国妈妈却夸奖她的女儿，认为她的女儿有见解，有爱心，以她女儿能够为别人献身服务的表现，引为骄傲。她并不是向我表示她的爱心，我又不能给她官做（笑声），也不能给她股份（笑声）。我在她的眼中，不过落后民族的一员。而是那个妈妈内心深处真挚的想法。相形之下，中国人就聪明多了。因为中国人太聪明，我想世界上的民族，包括犹太人在内，恐怕都没有中国人这么聪明。假如是单对单，一个人对一个人的话，中国人一定是胜利者。但是如果是两个人以上的话，中国人就非失败不可，因为中国人似乎是天生地不会团结（笑声）。团结的意义是，每个人都要把自己的权利和利益，抛弃一部分。比如现在有两个圆形物体，必须用刀削成两个较小的方形，才能紧密地粘在一起。可是彼此只希望自己不要被削，而只削别人的，要削掉自己的就不干了，这样怎么能团结（大笑）？中国人是太聪明了，没有一个人敢说中国人不聪明，中国人聪明到什么程度呢，聪明到被卖到屠宰场的时候，还拼命讲价钱，多赚了五块钱，就心花怒放（大笑）。就是这种情形，中国人太聪明，太聪明的极致一定是太自私。凡是不自私的行为，不自私的想法，都会被讥笑为傻子。中国人不够宽容，凡是一个人心情厚道，宽恕别人，赞扬别人，就会被人骂作傻子。人家打你的脸，你竟然敢反抗；人家违法，你竟然敢据理力争，你就是傻子。一件冒险的事，既不能做官，又不能发财，你去做了，大家当然说你是傻子。我觉得一个中国人必须多少有一点傻子的心情，然后我们这个民族才能得救，不然的话，就会像印第安人一样，日渐没落。有句俗话说，人不自私，天诛地灭。可见得人不自私的话，就会被别人认为不可救药。我们能不能够从自己开始，不要靠政府，也不要求别人，只是从自己做起，做一些世俗认为的傻事？ 总结我的意见，我们不要把人际关系搞得那么复杂，先从自己开始，从自己的孩子开始，训练起来！譬如，美国小孩子在自助餐桌上，妈妈告诉他，吃饭之后要把东西收拾好，弄干净，放在那里。这种教育应该从本身开始，从孩童时代开始，我们应该把这种训练当作一种起步和一种里程。中国人的美德多得很，可惜都在书上（笑声）。我们希望这些美德都能出现在我们的行为上，看看我们自己是不是可以办到。今天我报告我自己的意见完了，占用的时间太多，还请多多原谅，多多指教（热烈掌声）。 听众Ａ：我觉得问问题起码要十分钟才够。 主席：对不起，只有两分钟，因为很多人都想提出问题。 听众Ａ：先生刚才提到封建制度摧残人权的问题，你提到明王朝摧残人权，其实西方情形也差不多。我想西方文化也是同样经过君主专制的洗礼，为什么能够产生后来那种个人自由主义的人权观念，为什么中国就不能产生…… 主席：停一下好吗？你的问题已经超过了两分钟。（笑声） ：这不是讨论，这是考试（笑声）。不过用不着考，我已经是博士，是绿岛博士（笑声、掌声）。可惜我没有能力答复你这个问题，就好像我们没有能力了解为什么西洋人吃饭用刀叉，中国人吃饭用筷子一样。文化的产生是逐渐的，这两种文化在最初没有交通，互相影响的可能性很小，每个文化都照各自的模式去发展。个人的人生和民族的命运，往往被一个很小、很弱的因素，使他转变方向。但我们不晓得这个很小、很弱的因素是什么，或是在什么地方。 听众Ｂ：我想就这位先生所提的问题，向您再请教。刚才我听您的演讲，得到以下这样的感想，觉得您对中国文化的结论是这样下的：因为我们中国传统的文化，过去是一个专制的文化，有一个专制的政体，因此今天社会上才会演变成这样一种风气，也就是官场风气。因此，我想刚刚这位先生的问题，还是可以解释出其中的道理，因为您认为既然有了专制政体的大前提在，因此才产生这样的风气。既然两个文化都有同样的历史传统，为什么今天会产生不同的结果，依照您的结论来看，似乎结果应该一样。我也许是乱替柏老的结论下个卷标，我想您的结论是文化遗传论。记得容格曾经说过，文化是可以遗传的，如果人的老祖宗持有怎样的观点，子孙也会受到影响，因此我们过去有专制政体，即使我们今天受了西方文化的洗礼，在我们今天的文化中，可能还留有过去文化的专制因子。容格从心理学的立场提出这样的论点，但今天很多人却认为大有问题。第二点，听了您的讲演，使我们过去非常乐观的年轻的一代，有点难过。以我来讲，可以说是年轻的一辈，是新生代的一员，我始终觉得我们这一代，在整个社会风气和思想方式上，一定要和我的前辈不一样。譬如说我今天并没有做官，我不能保证我将来做官是不是变成只有官性没有人性（笑声）。但我觉得，有一天我到了那个场合，我相信我的官性仍然要比过去的人要少一点，人性还要多一点。但是您今天这样一讲的话，我觉得和我的想法不太一样，谢谢您。 ：我想我只是讲历史事实，因为时代和环境的转变、教育的导向，现时代可能不再会这样。而且我相信你的诚心，也相信你做得到。 听众Ｂ：我想您的诠释，也许跟我的不太一样。 ：我要强调一点，中国的专制政治和西洋的专制政治，在深度和广度上，差异很大。西洋历史我还没有开始念（笑声），不过我觉得有所不同。比较起来，中国专制是极端的，西洋宫廷里只跪一条腿，只有对上帝才跪两条腿，对人恐怕很少跪两条腿。中国不但跪两条腿，而且还要磕头，而且还要磕响头（笑声）。清王朝末年有句话说：多磕头，少说话。所以我想中国专制的内涵、专制的程度，恐怕跟西洋不一样。我看过法国路易十四一幅油画，路易十四很伟大地坐在当中，大臣坐在旁边，皇后也坐在旁边，这种情形在中国不可能发生，中国的大臣一定是战战兢兢，诚惶诚恐地跪在下面。 听众Ｂ：我想…… 主席：请等一下，让别人有机会问问题。 听众Ｃ：我从小就看过先生的书，今天能看到先生，感到非常感动。讲到中国人的个性、民族性、政府，刚才先生从古代史一直谈到近代史，而我们对现代史比较关心。第一个问题是，我们不知道先生来美国之后，讲话的开放性，有多大？您讲话能讲到什么程度才能够回到台湾……（笑声）。第二个问题是，中国人的个性常常因为政府而受影响，譬如政府常常喜欢愚民，很多地方明明大家已经知道了，他还是要压住，让大家感觉很多事都是很Secret。不讲实话也是中国官场想要达到政治目的的手段。 听众Ｆ：我手边有本《语录》，我们谈太多话不行，主持人刚才说的。我想我们的民主还有一个特点，你这本书里没有提到，就是不可以提政治问题（哄堂大笑，掌声不绝）。 听众Ｇ：今天先生谈到学术问题，您研究历史得了五个结论，前四个结论我可以百分之八十同意，最后一个结论说，中国人口太多，所以造成我们今天这种不幸，这个问题我有个疑问。日本，他的国家很小，人口也很多，但他们生活水准很高，他们没有接受我们官场文化的缺点，所以有今天的成果。我认为不是我们中国人口太多，才造成我们这种不幸，假如我们把工商业做得很好，假如我们改变了我们的病态和缺点，我们中国人可以维持这个现状，甚至我们更可以容纳一倍的人口。我们不应该说中国人口太多，就要限制我们的人口，就要去侵略人家，或者互相残杀。这是个现象，现象和结果是不能融在一起的。所以我的结论是，我们研究中国历史，并不是我们人口太多造成不幸、灾难、贫穷。我们很可以在中国这么大的领土上再容纳多一倍的人口，没有问题（笑声）。假如我们的科学、文明的发展，可以达到一个水准的话，我想我们的生活水准，不会低于日本。 ：我非常赞成你的见解，应该是这样的。不过，“假如”的前提太多，而在这些“假如”实现之前，人口仍是很大的问题，太多的人口才使我们的工业、科学、文明，永不能发达到“假如”的那种地步。 听众Ｇ：这个我能够接受，您的结论是说从历史的研究、学术的观点，指出中国的人口太多，所以才会有这样的不幸。我的意思是说，其他的四项结论，我赞成。而人口太多，并不是造成不幸的原因。将来我们中国人口是不是再增加下去？我们还会不会继续这种不幸？这是另外一个问题，值得研究。 听众Ｈ：先生谈中华民族的问题很有趣，我有一个错觉，不晓得是因为您有顾忌不愿意讲，或者是……总之，我有个印象，中华民族是有这么多的缺点，自私得没有救药。但是关于中国现代史，先生没有提到中国人民反帝国主义、反封建轰轰烈烈的斗争。在解放以后，一九四九年之后，建设整个社会主义，在整个过程中，一方面在经济方面、物质方面……建立一些科学基础，另一方面在人的意识形态上，做很多教育的工作，不知道先生愿不愿意评论这件事…… ：这是政治问题，我们不谈。我们只谈历史，同时，这个我也不太清楚（笑声）。 听众I：我有一个要求，请问您，关于简体字，我想听您的意见。 ：我赞成简体字，而且更赞成应该进一步改成拼音文字。昨天晚上，很多朋友聚在一起，就谈到这个问题，不过大家的意见不一致。因为反对拼音字的人，心里有一个结，这个结必须解开。拼音文字太需要了，譬如说打电话，我问贵姓？我姓刘。这刘字怎么写吧，在电话上恐怕没办法讲清楚，我说你去查字典，你也不敢肯定第一次就查到，甚至查第二、第三次都查不到，查得你火冒三丈（笑声）。过去，我们责怪古文没有标点符号，不能断句，看起来简直不懂。各位读过《元史》没有？蒙古人的名字像冰糖葫芦一样（笑声），简直分不出有几个人。现在虽有了标点符号，可以断句了，但方块字的最大缺点更呈现出来，那就是既不能隔字，又不能连音。不能隔字，即令字字认识，也看不懂。不能连音，方块字像一盘念珠挂在那里，我们要费很大的力气组合，才能弄清楚。好比说，“我从马来西亚来”，“马来西亚”应该连，跟最后一个“来”字之间，应该隔。否则的话，“马来”了，“西亚来”了，如果一个孩子名叫“西亚”，问题就大了（笑声）。今天打字这么快，计算机这么快，都不是方块字可以胜任的。我一直向往我桌子上有一部中文打字机，能使我打出中文稿件，不再做爬格纸动物。不过汉语拼音化并不容易，主要的是我们有心理障碍，认为我们用ABCD是英文字母，拼出的是英文。其实不是，我们要了解，这个ABCD就是中文字母（笑声），拼出的字，就是中文，就不至于有被同化的屈辱感觉。是的，它们是中文，是华文，不是英文，也不是德文，假如说用ABCD拼出来就是英文的话，德国人可能会气死，法国人也可能会气死。文字完全是工具，就好比车子，你买了就是你的，他买了就是他的。其实，假如拼音文字今天就实行的话，第一个先饿死的就是我，因为我就靠方块字吃饭（笑声）。但是我觉得自己的生命很短，政治的理由也很短，民族文化非常重要，那是太重要了。尤其各位在美国，你会发现第二代孩子们会讲中国话，但不会写中国字，那么难，你怎么教他？好比说中国的“国”字，怎么写？怎么填到那方块里去（笑声）？要认识这个字，除了死记以外，没有他法。以致孩子们高喊：“我恨死中文！”这还不能使我们猛醒？我们不要增加我们民族向前迈步的困难，应该大家脚步向前，不要自己为自己加一个脚镣，加一个手铐，不要为老祖宗活，不要为过去活！为什么为他们活？应该为孩子们活。拼音化之后，古书看不懂就看不懂算了，现在并没有拼音化，你还不是看不懂（笑声、掌声）。过去的事，老祖宗的事，交给几个人，让他们去庙堂里打扫。我们不要为祖宗活，要为孩子们，为下一代，为国家民族的未来活。假如中国有一天，忽然爆出冷门，威震世界，中国人一咳嗽，地球就发抖，中国话可以成为世界语言，但中国字绝对无法普及，所以必须改成拼音。 今天我讲中国这么多缺点，有人听了一定很泄气，我觉得我们应该听的，正是这些，而不是优点，假如我们讲我们的美德、我们的聪明……最后，我们还是不能够受到人家尊重，我们自己也不能自尊。要知道，中国人的灾难，不仅是中国人自己的灾难，也是全世界的灾难。一只小船沉下去就沉下去，一只大船沉下去，引起来的漩涡会把附近的船都吸引下去。日本人为什么来侵略我们？只怪中国不争气引诱他动手（笑声）。我觉得我们应该自救，自救的第一件事就是要知道自己的缺点，假如不知道自己的缺点，整天去想得意的事，恐怕有点像贾宝玉意淫（笑声）。 听众Ｊ：我常听到两句成语，一句是“以不变应万变”，另一句是“报喜不报忧”，您有什么看法？ ：“以不变应万变”，我不敢有意见（笑声、掌声）。“报喜不报忧”，我想这是官场特征。 听众Ｋ（美国人）：您今天演讲的题目好像是专门说中国人的坏话，我想请您也说说美国的坏话（笑声）。就您所看到的书，及您在美国所看到的事，您觉得美国有什么地方，应该向有五千年历史的中国学习？ ：关于美国人的坏话，美国人自己已讲得太多了，这是我非常羡慕的地方，因为美国有自我平衡、自我反省、自我调整的力量。自己有错的地方，都自己讲出来，自己能接受，自己能鉴赏，这一点我们中国人不能。你要是讲美国人好，人家就说你为什么不是美国人，不把鼻子拉高（笑声）。有人讲这是崇洋媚外，我觉得崇洋很好嘛，有什么不好，不但要崇洋，而且要彻底地崇洋，我如果有权利，我一定规定每个人不崇洋不行，哪一个人不是从头到尾都是洋？而且各位还住在美国，而我还住在台湾，我觉得这是醒悟不醒悟的问题，我们应该把人家的好处一条条列下来，好的地方，我们就应该学，我们如果希望像美国一样强大，我们就需要向美国人学习，美国值得我们学习的地方太多了。美国当然不可能十全十美，因为世界上没有十全十美，至少美国的邮政就坏，投递既慢，而又经常放假。但我们也应该庆幸美国不十全十美，假如美国是那样，他就僵化了。 听众Ｌ：先生是一个博士，是一个病理学家，他今天说我们丧失了民族自尊心，应包括先生自己在内。今天他说的话，把我们五千年的历史说到坟墓里去了，不能使我们唤起民族精神，这一点我今天来听，觉得很遗憾。我觉得中国受了封建思想的余毒很浓厚，再加上儒家思想，假如我们把儒家思想转变成法治思想，从人治转变为法治，建立法律制度，就会弥补过去的许许多多缺点。因为过去都是人存政存，人亡政息，假如我们今天建立法条，你该做几年就做几年，不要去破坏它。我今天是个厨子，如果我要我的儿子也继承做厨子，这便是儒家思想造成的祸患。我们希望先生告诉我们怎样去治这个病，我们不能放弃。您说崇洋，在座的许多中国人，并不见得在美国就崇洋，这一点希望先生谅解。这一点，您错了，这是我一点意见。我希望先生讲的五千年文化不至于在五千年后仍充满了封建、廷杖、官场。希望从今而后能改革，从人治变成法治，走向光明的未来。 ：我跟你的意见完全一样，追求的也完全一样。 听众Ｍ：在大学时，我读过先生的一些作品，觉得先生喜欢用讽刺、泼辣、尖酸的笔法，来揭发社会上不合理的现象。今天又听到您讲了中国人这些缺点，我们心里的感触很深，觉得很痛心，很泄气，很难过，但我觉得这就好像看病一样，病已经看出来了，就要对症下药。我不知道先生作品中是不是能告诉我们如何去面对这些。另外我想请教先生谈谈台湾文坛的情形，推荐一些好的作品给我们。您比较欣赏哪些作家？ ：我先说第二个问题，陈映真、王拓、三毛、袁琼琼、陈铭磻、杨青矗，都是第一流的，不过我看得并不很多，因为我的眼睛在坐牢时受了伤，没有办法集中看小字，台湾的报纸字又特别小，这个问题可不可推荐我太太来答复。 张香华：忽然给了我一个难题，不过，我坐在这里一直在想另一个问题，因为刚才一位先生说今天讲的话，使我们丧失了民族的自尊。我想就我的了解，把他的意见解释一下。我想的意见，并不是说我们国家一点前途、一点希望都没有。关键在于我们是否能自我反省。他讲崇洋，这是一个事实。崇洋，这个名词应该看怎样理解，试看我们今天的生活方式，物质的享受，崇洋已经是非常明显。不过我想他刚才有句话没有讲得很清楚，而在别的地方讲演时，却十分强调，就是，我们崇洋，但不媚外（掌声）。我们承认美国比我们强，我们应该向他学习，但我们不需要去乞求他，不需要用自卑的方式，用自怜的方式来生存，而是怎样改进，怎样想办法，很快地超过他们，我想这是心里的话。很抱歉，我擅自作一补充，因为我整个思想一直在想这个问题（掌声）。 ：关于李玲瑶小姐问到该用什么方法，我想到一点。我提出来都是些病态的东西，我想大家都很难过，我自己也很难过，因为我们当初听到的中国是很光荣的，像朱元璋，他是民族英雄，后来我发现完全不是这样，别人正跟蒙古人作战时，他在后方却扩充地盘，抄别人的后路，最后更篡夺政权，完全为自己打算。等到别人把蒙古人打得一塌糊涂，把在中土的蒙古人的精力，完全磨损之后，朱元璋却坐收其成。发现这件事之后，我是那么沮丧。我想我们能不能复兴我们的民族，要从我们能不能承认自己的缺点、承认自己的错误开始。假如连缺点、错误都不承认，又怎么改革？怎么进取？过去，我们一直不肯承认自己的缺点、错误，因为我们已丧失了辨别是非的能力，一旦发现缺点，简直就没办法活了。而一个有自尊心的人，会承认自己缺点、自己错误的，只有中国人大多数死不认错。我们也有检讨，但检讨的结果都是因为自己太好了（笑声）。所以我们一直受人家欺负，今天被张三欺负，明天被李四欺负，后天被王五欺负。中国人每个人都应该有能力来检讨自己，不要抱怨，不要总是专讲别人。在台北时，有对夫妇吵架，找我评理，丈夫凶巴巴地说，他太太不爱他。我就说，如果想教人爱你，第一个条件必须要自己可爱（笑声）。如果自己不可爱，怎么教人家爱你？如果自己要别人尊重的话，必须自己先有被尊重的条件，这个条件不是骂一骂就可以得到，也不是喊喊口号就有用。假如此地不可以随地吐痰，可是你总在这里吐痰，教人怎么尊重你？小便要到洗手间去，假如在大街随便撒尿，又教人怎么尊重你？所以我想我们一定要有被尊重的先决条件，一定要知道我们不如别人的地方。中国人似乎一直在死不认错，一认错就被认为是崇洋？是的，为什么不崇洋？我们现在整个思想体系、经济思想、学术思想、民主思想、法治人权思想，都不是老祖宗传下来的。社会制度、意识形态、生活方式，都是从外国来的，哪一个是传统传下来的？我们的物质生活，如汽车、飞机、眼镜、理头发的方式、房子、刮胡刀，都不是中国发明家发明的，所以我觉得不是崇洋的问题，而是学习的问题。现在台北人喜欢吃土鸡，我也喜欢吃土鸡，洋鸡没有人吃，不好吃就没人吃，洋鸡也没有人要。只要好的，就会有人要（笑声）。但中国人的神经，出奇衰弱，一提到崇洋，就是媚外，怎么会产生这种结论？崇洋不过学他们的优点，假如有一天美国人统统抽鸦片烟自杀了，我们总不会跟进吧。我们自己要有受人尊重的前提，要有反省自己的能力，这是我们民族生存发展最大、最基本的要件。怪来怪去都在怪别人，这个民族就没有救了。不但发生在我们民族身上，发生在任何民族身上，后果都一样。印第安人老讲白人杀光了他们，把白人恨入骨髓，仅仅恨有什么用？自己复兴才对！你不能复兴，白人将来可能杀得更多。我觉得我们不要责备任何人，不要抱怨任何人，这一点才是最重要的。其次，承认我们错误之后，承认自己的缺点以后，才有复兴的可能性。只怕承认了之后有些人自己的神经先行崩溃。 听众Ｏ：先生，我看您的文章很刻薄，可是今天听您的演讲，觉得您的人很可爱（笑声）。这是真话，现在有个要求，不知道文字狱是不是我们中国文化的特色。在西洋历史上，我还没有找到像中国过去文字狱的case，不知道您对这种文字狱，将来有没有多写文章，发掘明王朝以后，中国文字狱对知识分子阶层的影响。 ：谢谢您的意见，我自己在牢房里搜集了不少资料，准备写一部《中国冤狱史》，中国冤狱（包括文字狱）之多，真是举世无双（笑声）。 听众Ｐ：先生，我最赞成您写这部冤狱史，您是绿岛大学毕业的，我是岛外小学毕业的，我也像您一样。 ：你坐过几年？ 听众Ｐ：半年。 ：幼儿园、幼儿园（听众大笑）。 听众Ｑ：您在《早起的虫儿》书中推崇科幻小说，教人不要看武侠小说，原则上我非常同意，不过倪匡说过：不看的杂文是人生的一大损失，不看金庸的武侠小说是人生的另一大损失，不知道您的看法怎样？第二个问题是，听说您在绿岛时看了很多算命的书（笑声），我觉得算命是中国文化的一部分，很神秘，不知道您的感想怎么样？ ：当我写那篇文章时，我还没有看到金庸的作品，因为那时他的小说还不能进入台湾（笑声）。我觉得看过金庸的武侠之后，别的武侠都不能看了。我看过王度庐、不肖生……很多武侠，但看了金庸的之后，别的都比下去。金庸的文字水准、意境水准，都非常够，尤其他的武侠小说在海外流行，意义更大。因为普通人看正式的文学作品很吃力，武侠小说无形之中，使人受到感染，使中文得到普及。他确实写得不错，我很佩服他，他用这样的笔法写出来，的确是空前的。我在坐牢时买了很多算命的书，因为十二年后出来，时局都变了，我可能没办法谋生，我预备在街上摆卦摊（笑声、掌声）。我研读了一年多，后来有人告诉我，政治犯不准当算命先生，我就没有再研究了。谈到命运，我自己是相信命运的，年轻的朋友大概不相信命运，我年轻时也不相信。 听众Ｒ：您赞成简体字，又赞成罗马拼音…… ：不是罗马拼音，而是汉语拼音。因为你的说法涉及到…… 听众Ｒ：您提到金庸武侠，赞成他的词句优点，这是不是关系到字形的优点，或者仅是读音的优点？如果简化，甚至只剩下汉语拼音，那么字形优点和