Chapter 42 Conversation with British journalist Stein[1]

(July 14, 1944) Stein: Is it possible for you to change the name "Communist Party"? Mao Zedong: The Communist Parties of all countries have only one thing in common, and that is the Marxist method of political thinking.A communist party everywhere must distinguish the ideology of communism from something quite different, the social system of communism, which is the ultimate goal of this ideology. Especially in China, we must strictly distinguish the communist method of observing, researching and solving social problems from the new democratic policies that we actually adopt.At the current stage of China's social development, realizing the new democratic policy is our short-term goal.Without the communist way of thinking, we cannot correctly guide the democratic stage of our current social revolution; without the new-democratic political system, we cannot correctly apply communist philosophy to China's reality.

Under any circumstances, our present new-democratic policy will have to be continued, and it will be carried out for quite a long time.Because the specific conditions existing in China require us to do so. What China needs now is democracy, not socialism.More precisely, China needs to do three things at present: (1) expel Japanese imperialism; (2) implement a democratic system throughout the country, so that the people can obtain all modern freedoms, and the central and local governments can be elected by truly free universal suffrage , all these have been realized in the area under our jurisdiction; (3) to solve the land problem, so that capitalism with a certain progressive nature can be developed in China, and the people's living standards can be improved through the introduction of modern production methods.

These are the tasks of the present Chinese revolution.Talking about the realization of socialism before these tasks are completed can only be empty talk.This is the point of view told to us Party members in my book "On New Democracy" in 1940.I said then that the first stage of our revolution, the stage of the democratic revolution, was by no means short-lived.We are not daydreamers, and we cannot leave the current actual conditions.Compared with your highly developed western countries, China may have reached the stage of socialism and communism quite a long time later. S: What are the main elements of the new democratic economy and new democratic society that you consider?

Mao: The main economic feature of New Democracy is the Agrarian Revolution.This is true even in the present period when resistance to Japan is our main task.Because the Chinese peasants are the main exploited, they are not only exploited by the Chinese reactionaries, but also exploited by the Japanese imperialists in the enemy-occupied areas.It was thanks to the introduction of New Democracy in the areas in which we fought that we succeeded in resisting the Japanese army everywhere from the very beginning, because the reforms of New Democracy were in the interests of the peasant masses who constituted our fighting forces. The foundation of strength.

In other parts of China where land reform has not been carried out, there is still a scattered individual small-scale peasant economy under the feudal land ownership system. Peasants are bound by the land, have no freedom, have little contact with each other, and live an ignorant and backward life.This kind of economy was the basis of ancient Chinese feudalism and dictatorship.The future new democratic society cannot be built on such a foundation, and the progress of Chinese society will mainly depend on the development of industry. Therefore, industry must be the main economic base of the new democratic society.Only an industrial society can be a fully democratic society.But in order to develop industry, the land problem must first be solved.It is impossible to develop capitalism without a revolution against the feudal land system, as the development of Western countries many years ago has shown very clearly.The nature of the agrarian revolution during the period of civil war in our country until 1937 was basically the same as that of the agrarian revolutions carried out in some advanced countries in the West. The agrarian revolution swept away the feudal obstacles and opened the way for the development of the capitalist democratic system. .

S: After the Anti-Japanese War, will the radical policy of confiscating land from landlords and distributing it to peasants that you adopted during the Civil War continue to be implemented? Mao: During the Civil War we had no reason to prevent the peasants from confiscating the land of the landlords, because the landlord class not only oppressed them, but actually led the struggle against the peasants.Our party only complied with the wishes of the peasants on this issue, turning their demands into slogans and implementing them as policies.This land confiscation is the correct policy under Chinese conditions.The basic demands of the masses in rural areas have always focused on the desire for land ownership.The late Kuomintang leader Mr. Sun Yat-sen realized this and advocated the implementation of "land to the tiller".This is one of the main points in his program to solve people's livelihood problems.

The situation is of course different in the stage of national war against foreign invaders.The national war can persuade the peasant masses not to confiscate the land of the landlords, because the masses also realize that when the landlords are also willing to resist foreign enemies, the policy of confiscating land may drive the landlords to run to the cities controlled by the Japanese, and then fight with the Japanese soldiers Come back and take the land back. Therefore, shortly after the outbreak of the Anti-Japanese War, the peasants soon realized that we replaced the previous land confiscation with the new policy of rent reduction, which had two advantages: one was to improve the lives of the peasants; the other was to attract landlords to stay in the countryside Participate in the Anti-Japanese War.The general rent reduction in favor of the tenant farmers and our policy of guaranteeing rent payments to the landlords have improved the relationship between the tenant farmers and the landlords, so that the Japanese aggressors can hardly find any cooperators in our region.

S: How was the Communist Party’s change in land policy decided at the time? Chairman Mao: This is a typical example of our party formulating policies in a democratic way.The fundamental policy shift from confiscation of land to general rent reduction and payment to landlords was initially suggested by comrades in lower party organizations, and our Party Central Committee adopted their proposal because it was clearly in line with the masses wishes.We research these requirements, develop policies based on them, and generally enforce them. If the whole of China becomes a true democratic country based on the cooperation of all parties, then we can implement our rent reduction policy nationwide.Although it is not as good as Dr. Sun Yat-sen's "land to the tiller" proposition (which is the ultimate solution to the land problem), it is actually still a great reform.As long as a genuinely democratic system of government is established everywhere, it will be possible to gradually and peacefully transfer to the cultivators all the land which is now under the system of feudal exploitation.

Implementing the method of gradually transferring all land to cultivators will encourage landlords to invest their capital in industry. At the same time, other financial and economic policies and their implementation methods that are beneficial to landlords, tenant farmers, and the economic development of China as a whole must be worked out. But such a solution depends on the realization of real domestic peace and real democracy.Therefore, the necessity of confiscating all the land from landlords and distributing it to tenant farmers cannot be completely ruled out in the future, because if the Kuomintang persists in attacking us after the war, civil war may break out again.

However, regardless of the future domestic peace or civil war, we prefer not to implement the policy of confiscation of land, but to continue the current policy of reducing and paying rent, because generally speaking, this will reduce the obstacles on the road to progress and reform. I would like to remind you that in 1930 the Nanjing Kuomintang government promulgated a land law, which stipulated that the maximum amount of land rent was 37.5% of the harvest of the tenant farmers’ main crops, and no land rent could be charged for secondary crops.But the KMT proved unable and unwilling to put the Land Law into practice, which was never implemented.Therefore, it turns out that only the Communist Party can really achieve land reform, even if it only takes the form of rent reduction.

S: What attitude did the Chinese Communist Party take towards Chinese industrial and commercial capital after the war? Chairman Mao: We firmly believe that no matter whether it is Chinese or foreign private capital, it should be given the opportunity to fully develop in post-war China, because China needs to develop its industry.In China's commercial relations with the outside world, we shall replace Japan's policy of colonizing China with a policy of free and equal trade with all countries.Domestically, we should replace the Kuomintang government's policy of lowering people's living standards and hindering the development of domestic industry with the policies that have been implemented in the Liberated Areas to promote the development of people's productive forces, increase their purchasing power, and create the prerequisites for the stable development of modern industry as soon as possible. According to Dr. Sun Yat-sen's vision, there are three ways to achieve industrialization. As far as China's general conditions are concerned, we think this is correct.All key industries that can control the livelihood of the people, such as railways and mines, are best developed and operated by the state, and other industries can be developed by private capital.In order to exploit the great potential of handicrafts and small rural factories, we must rely on strong, democratically managed cooperatives. S: What political role did the Communist Party intend to play in postwar China? Chairman Mao: Our party members are of course only a very small part of the Chinese population, and the relationship between the party and the people is healthy only when this small group reflects the opinions of the majority and works for their interests of. Today, the Communist Party not only reflects the views of peasants and workers, but also reflects the views of many anti-Japanese landlords, businessmen, intellectuals, etc., that is to say, it reflects the opinions of all anti-Japanese people in our region.The Communist Party is willing and ready to work closely with all Chinese who are willing to cooperate with the Communist Party.This desire is expressed in our "three-three system" of the nature of democratic representation. In all elected institutions, the seats of Communist Party members shall not exceed one-third of the total number of seats, and two-thirds of the seats shall be given to other parties and independent parties. Partisans. S: How does the Chinese Communist Party handle its relationship with the Kuomintang? Mao: We are willing to cooperate with the Kuomintang, not only during the war, but also after the war, if the Kuomintang allows us to do so.Moreover, we will continue to fulfill the four promises we made to the Kuomintang in 1937, as we do today.[2] S: Regarding the four guarantees, when I was in Chongqing, I often heard people refer to them and their attached conditions in general terms. What are their specific contents? Chairman Mao: We promise: (1) not to continue to carry out the agrarian revolution policy that we practiced in the past; (2) to stop using force to overthrow the Kuomintang government; (3) to reorganize the border Soviet government into a local democratic government; (4) to transform our The Red Army was adapted as part of the National Revolutionary Army. [3] We said at that time that we would fulfill our stated promises, but we asked the Kuomintang to: (1) stop the civil war; (2) fight against Japan; freedom of the press, assembly, and association; (4) taking measures to improve the lives of the people. [4] S: Is there any objection within the Chinese Communist Party to the current policy, or to the long-term goals of China you have described? Chairman Mao: No, there is no objection in our party now.In the past, there were two biases.One is Trotskyist in nature, represented by Chen Duxiu[5], whose objections have long been irrelevant.Chen Duxiu died in 1942.The other is the bias of Zhang Guotao [6]. He once resisted the correct line of the party for a while, and finally left the party alone.Now he works in the secret service of the Kuomintang.Neither of these biases affected the unity of our party, and left no trace of it. S: Are you saying that your policies have never been questioned or opposed? Chairman Mao: Naturally, there are often differences of opinion within our party, but these differences can be resolved through discussion and analysis in this democratic way.If the minority is still not convinced of the correctness of the resolution of the majority, they will obey the resolution after a thorough debate at a party meeting.The decisive factor in our work is that we often try to understand which of our policies are accepted by the masses and which policies are criticized or rejected by the masses.Only those policies that are popular with the masses can become the policies that our party continues to implement. Whenever a new measure is adopted, there will always be some people inside and outside the party who do not quite understand it.However, in the process of implementation, there will inevitably be a common opinion of the vast majority of people. This is because our party has always been paying attention to the general reactions inside and outside the party, and is constantly revising our measures according to the actual needs and opinions of the people. .All our party organizations, from top to bottom, must abide by one of our crucial principles, that is, not to be divorced from the masses, but to be closely connected with the needs and wishes of the masses. The correctness of any one of our policies must be tested by the masses, and in fact has always been done.We ourselves are constantly checking our own decisions and policies, and correcting errors as we discover them.We draw conclusions from all experiences, both positive and negative, and implement them as widely as possible.Through these methods, the relationship between the Communist Party and the masses of the people can be continuously improved. This is the most basic point.If the party leaders are really working for the interests of the broad masses of the people, if their efforts in this regard are sincere and sincere, then they have a lot of opportunities to listen to the opinions of the masses.We pay great attention to listening to the views of the people.Through mass meetings in villages, towns, districts, and counties, that is, mass meetings anywhere in our region, conversations between party members and people from all walks of life, meetings, newspapers, calls and letters from the masses, etc., everything can be heard. The channel of the people's voice can always find the real opinions of the masses.In fact we do the same. In addition, there is another method, which is to find a few typical examples of satisfactory and unsatisfactory activities in all activities, conduct in-depth research, sum up experience, and draw specific conclusions in order to obtain necessary work improvements.The time it takes to observe actual conditions, to study good and bad typical examples, is sometimes weeks, sometimes months, and sometimes years.Although it takes a lot of time, this method enables us to keep in close contact with the actual development situation, understand the wishes and needs of the people, and learn from those who have done outstanding work inside and outside the party. Sometimes some of our comrades may not have a thorough understanding of our policies and have made mistakes in the process of implementing them. Such comrades must be criticized and educated.It is also important to thoroughly research and analyze a good example at work for educational purposes.Take today's "Liberation Daily" as an example. There is a long article[7] that occupies an entire page. It details how a company of the Eighth Route Army corrected its shortcomings and became the best company.This article is to be read, studied and discussed by cadres and soldiers of every company in our army.This is a simple and easy way to use the good experience of one company to educate 5,000 companies on policy.In the future you will see similar articles about a cooperative, a school, a hospital or a local administration. Let us return to the crucial question of mutual understanding and close cooperation between Party members and non-Party people.Although this problem has been greatly and resolutely improved, some of our comrades are still making mistakes, disputes and misunderstandings continue to occur, and some of our party members are still doing everything here and there.Therefore, we have always asked everyone to pay attention to the importance of enabling non-Party people to have actual power under the democratic "three-three system".In the actual implementation of our policies, we must clearly explain to all comrades that our sincere cooperation with non-Party people has not only helped the masses, but also helped ourselves.As a result of this, the mutual trust of Party and non-Party people grows in the practical work in which they have to work together. S: Do you think the Chinese Communist Party has ever made major policy mistakes? Mao: On all fundamental points, our policy has been correct from the start.First of all, the basic policy of our New Democracy is correct.This basic policy is to let the masses of the people organize themselves to carry out a revolution for the realization of national independence, the establishment of a democratic system, and the improvement of people's living standards on the basis of private ownership.It is only when these basic policies are applied to specific situations that sometimes a certain bias tends to appear, some are "left" and some are right.However, these biases are not party-wide, nor are they part of a certain faction within the party, but belong to certain people within the party.From these mistakes, the whole party has learned a lot.At certain times, there were a few people in our party who believed that communism could now be practiced in China.However, our party has never had such a view.Since China's specific conditions prevent the realization of communism in China for a long time, it is impossible for a small group in our party to advocate the immediate realization of the communist social system. The Kuomintang's assertion that there are small cliques in our party holding various views is groundless.The Kuomintang itself was torn apart by factions, so it could not conceive of a truly united party, which may be why such rumors were believed in Chongqing. S: Have you ever been in a minority that prevented your advocacy on an issue from being implemented? Mao: Yes.I myself have been in a minority situation.At times like these, all I can do is wait.But in recent years, this has been very rare. S: When I was in Chongqing, some Chinese friends asked me to observe whether the Communist Party is "China First" or "Communist Party First"? Please talk about your views on this issue. Mao: Without the Chinese nation, there would be no Chinese Communist Party.You might as well ask the question this way, should children come first or parents first? This is not a theoretical question but a practical one.It’s like another question people ask you in the KMT area, are we working for our party, or are we working for the people? Ask our people, anywhere.They know very well that the Chinese Communist Party is there for them, and they have the experience of sharing weal and woe with us in the most difficult times. As for our way of thinking, I have already told you that we, like the communist parties in other countries, firmly believe in the correctness of Marxism.This is probably what people are referring to when they ask whether we are "Communist first" or "China first."However, we believe that Marxism is the correct way of thinking, which does not mean that we ignore the value of Chinese cultural heritage and non-Marxist foreign ideas. It is absolutely true that there are many good things left to us by Chinese history.We must make these heritages our own.However, some of us in China worship old outdated ideas, which are not only inapplicable but also harmful to our China today.Such things must be discarded. The same goes for foreign cultures, in which there is good, progressive, which we must accept, and on the other hand, corrupt, such as fascism, which we must reject. Inheriting China's past ideas and accepting foreign ideas does not mean unconditionally copying, but must be adopted according to specific conditions to make them suitable for China's reality.Our attitude is one of critical acceptance of our own historical heritage and foreign ideas.We are against both blindly accepting any idea and blindly resisting any idea.We Chinese have to think with our own heads and decide what can grow in our own soil. Finally, I would like to summarize what China needs today.China needs domestic peace and democracy.Without domestic peace, China could neither win the War of Resistance Against Japan nor peace.If we fail to achieve domestic peace after the Anti-Japanese War, it may affect international peaceful relations.Because, if another civil war breaks out in China, it will last for a long period of time, and it will inevitably affect other countries. There are still many people in foreign countries who do not fully understand that the key issue in China's political process in the past 23 years has always been the relationship between the KMT and the Communist Party.It will remain so in the future. During this important twenty-three years, the first stage of which was from 1924 to 1927, there would have been no national revolution in China without the cooperation of the Kuomintang and the Communist Party.In the later stage of the second stage, from 1931 to 1936, China was unable to resist Japan because the Nationalist government of the Kuomintang did everything possible, including the use of foreign loans, foreign military advisers, and other forms of foreign aid, to carry out " "Suppress the Communist Party" war.In the third stage, from 1937 to the present, without the cooperation between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party, we would not have been able to carry on the War of Resistance Against Japan, at least not for such a long time.Besides, if the Kuomintang continues to cooperate with the Communist Party, at least as it did in the early days of the war, China's combat capability will be much stronger than it is now. Printed from Stein's The Challenge of Red China. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] This conversation was originally published in the book "The Challenge of Red China" by Stein, which was translated into Chinese by Chenshe in July 1946 and published.This collection of essays has been re-translated by the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China's Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin Works Compilation Bureau according to the original English version.Stein (1900-1960), born in Berlin, Germany, became a British citizen in 1941.In 1944, as a correspondent in Chongqing for the Associated Press, the British "Manchester Guardian", and the American "Christian Science Monitor", he participated in a Northwest tour group of Chinese and foreign journalists to visit Yan'an.Regarding the conversation between Mao Zedong and Stein, Stein once sent the record of the conversation to Mao Zedong for review.Stein said in the book "The Challenge of Red China": "My interview notes were translated into Chinese and sent to him to ensure the accuracy of the notes. Almost a week has passed, and he has not returned the notes to me. One day, I ran into him by chance, and he apologized and said, 'I have to ask Comrade Zhu De and Zhou Enlai for everything I told you. They agreed'. My interview notes came back unmodified." "I The key points of the interview are published below, without adding any personal comments, to ensure its documentation." [2] See note [26] on page 103 of this volume. [3] In a telegram to the Third Plenary Session of the Chinese Kuomintang Central Committee on February 10, 1937, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China promised to implement the following four items: (1) stop the policy of overthrowing the national government; (2) change the name of the Soviet government to the special zone of the Republic of China The government, the Red Army was renamed the National Revolutionary Army, under the guidance of the Nanjing Central Government and the Military Commission; (3) Implement the democratic system of universal suffrage in the SAR government area; (4) Stop confiscating land from landlords and implement the common program of the Anti-Japanese National United Front. [4] In a telegram to the Third Plenary Session of the Chinese Kuomintang on February 10, 1937, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China requested the Kuomintang to implement the following: (1) stop all civil wars and concentrate its power on foreign affairs; Freedom, release all political prisoners; (3) convene a meeting of representatives of all parties, factions, walks of life, and armies to gather talents from all over the country to save the country; (4) quickly complete all preparations for the War of Resistance against Japan; (5) improve people's lives. [5] Chen Duxiu, see note [8] on page 101 of this volume. [6] Zhang Guotao, see note [7] on page 101 of this volume. [7] Refers to the article "The Seventh Company of the Seventh Police Regiment" written by the General Political Department of the Military Commission published in the "Liberation Daily" on July 14, 1944.