Chapter 14 Conversation with musicians[1]

(August 24, 1956) The basic principles for realizing the socialist revolution are the same in all countries.But there are differences in the form of expression of the minor principles and the basic principles.For example, the principle of war is the same, they are attacking, defending, advancing, retreating, winning, and losing, but in terms of fighting methods, how to attack and how to defend are different, and there are many differences.In the War to Resist U.S. Aggression and Aid Korea[2], the fight reached the 38th parallel[3] and both sides withstood it. This form is rare in the world.Revolutions must take many forms.There are many differences between the October Revolution and the Chinese Revolution.The Soviet Union went from city to country, and we go from country to city.

The basic principles of art have their commonality, but the forms of expression must be diversified, and there must be national forms and national styles.The leaves of a tree look roughly the same, but upon closer inspection each leaf is different.There are commonalities, there are also individualities, there are similar aspects, and there are also different aspects.This is a law of nature and a law of Marxism.Composing, singing, dancing should be like this. To say that the things of the Chinese nation have no laws is to deny the things of China, and it is wrong.Chinese language, music, and painting all have their own laws.In the past, those who said that Chinese painting was not good were simply because they did not study their own things thoroughly and thought that Western painting methods must be used.Of course, you can learn foreign things first and then make Chinese things, but Chinese things have their own laws.Music can adopt foreign rational principles, or use foreign musical instruments, but it must always have national characteristics, and must have its own special style to be unique.

It is very unlikely that the "total Westernization" of art will be accepted. It is better to base on Chinese art and absorb some foreign things to create your own.Now all kinds of things can be done, and it's up to people to choose.You have to learn many things in foreign countries, and you have to learn well, so that everyone can see the world.However, the Chinese do not welcome the imitation of western things in Chinese art.This is different from medicine.Western medicine can indeed cure people's diseases.Dissection, appendectomy, aspirin, there is no national form.Angelica and rhubarb are also not counted as ethnic forms.Art has a problem of form and a problem of national form.Art cannot be separated from people's habits, feelings and even language, and cannot be separated from the historical development of a nation.The national conservatism of art is relatively strong, and it can even be maintained for thousands of years.Ancient art, later generations still love it.

We should be familiar with foreign things and read foreign books.However, it does not mean that the Chinese must act in accordance with foreign methods, and it does not mean that the Chinese write things as if they were translated.The Chinese still have to focus on their own things. Of course we advocate folk music.As a Chinese, it is impossible not to promote Chinese folk music.But military bands can never use suona or huqin. This means that we wear military uniforms, which are still in the current style. We can't wear the kind of gown with the word "courage" written on the chest and back.Nor can nationalization be like that.Musical instruments are tools.Of course, the tools are good or bad, but how to use the tools is fundamental.Foreign musical instruments can be used, but the composition cannot be copied from foreign countries.

There are 2.7 billion people on the earth, it is not enough to sing a kind of music.Regardless of the East or the West, each nation must have its own things.The development of capitalism in Western countries has played a role in history.But now the world's attention is gradually turning to the East. Is it okay for the Eastern countries not to develop their own things? You can do something that is neither Chinese nor Western, as long as someone welcomes it.Total westernization has been advocated by some, but it doesn't work.The basic principles of Marxism-Leninism should be accepted, and it is unreasonable and detrimental not to accept them.The Second International [4] once denied these basic principles, but was refuted by Lenin.China also had a "Second International"—Jiang Kanghu's Socialist Party[5], which had very little influence.The manifestations of the basic principles of Marxism-Leninism in practice should vary from country to country.In China, the basic principles of Marxism-Leninism must be integrated with China's revolutionary reality.The October Revolution was the national form of the Russian Revolution.The content of socialism and the form of a nation are as true in politics as they are in art.The general music principles of the West should be combined with the reality of China, so that a very rich form of expression can be produced.

China's tofu, bean sprouts, preserved eggs, and Peking duck are special, and other countries can't compare, and they can be internationalized.Dressing and eating are also different from country to country.The clothes worn by Indians are different from those worn by Chinese, and they are suitable for the Indian environment.Chinese eat with chopsticks, while Westerners use knives and forks.It doesn't make sense to say that the use of knives and forks is brilliant and scientific, but the use of chopsticks is backward. History is always important.With a long history, there are advantages and disadvantages.The short history of the United States may have its advantages, and the burden is light, so you don't have to remember so many things.Our long history also has its advantages.If we throw away the old tradition, people will say it is traitorous, and there is no way to cut it down.But it is a bit troublesome to look back on such a long history.

Learn the principles of science from foreign countries.After learning these principles, we should use them to study Chinese things.We want Western medicine and Chinese medicine, and that's the reason.The general principles of natural science and social science must be learned.How water is made, man has changed from an ape, all countries in the world are the same.What about art? Chinese music, dance, and painting make sense, but the problem is that it cannot be explained much because there is not much research.We should learn foreign modern things, and after learning, we should study Chinese things.If you study western medicine first, anatomy, pharmacology, etc., and then study traditional Chinese medicine and traditional Chinese medicine, you can quickly improve Chinese things.Marx said that it is easy to understand ancient society by first studying modern society[6].This is backwards, but faster.

For handicrafts, artists cannot be invited.It is a matter of interest to look down on Chinese folk art.Their interest should be aroused gradually.It may not make sense for a while, but long-term persuasion is needed. Against dogmatism.We have suffered a lot in politics.Everything was learned from Russia and treated as a dogma. The result was a big failure, destroying almost 100% of the White Areas and 90% of the base areas and the Red Army, delaying the victory of the revolution for several years.This is because we do not start from reality, but from dogma.The dogmatists did not integrate the basic principles of Marxism-Leninism with the reality of the Chinese revolution.They say that the Chinese revolution is a democratic revolution, but they want to kill all the bourgeoisie.If you do it that way, you will make a mistake, and it will not be a democratic revolution, but a socialist revolution.They didn't get it right.The revolutionary method was not correct, and the relationship within the party was not correct, which caused great losses to the revolution.Dogmatism must be opposed, for if it is not opposed, the revolution cannot be victorious.

If the problems of the bourgeoisie and the intellectuals are not handled properly, it will be detrimental to the cause of the revolution.China's approach to the bourgeoisie is different from that of the Soviet Union.Although the Chinese bourgeoisie and their intellectuals are small in number, they have modern culture, and we still need to unite with them.The landlord class also has culture, which is ancient culture, not modern culture.There is no need to compose a few lines of old poems or articles of the Tongcheng School[7] today.Take workers and peasants as an example, workers are more educated, they have skills, but they cannot be engineers, and they are worse than bourgeois and intellectuals.Farmers cannot be said to be uneducated, intensive farming, singing folk songs and dancing are also cultured.But most of them are illiterate, do not have modern cultural technology, can use hoes and wooden plows, but cannot use tractors.The bourgeoisie is superior to other classes in terms of modern culture and technology, so they must be united and transformed.Some of the culture mastered by the bourgeoisie is old and unusable, but many things can be used.Many of the musicians are bourgeois in thought.We people used to be like that too.But we turned around from that side, why can't they come over? In fact, many people have come over.Uniting them is in the interest of the revolutionary cause of the working class.We must unite them, help them transform, and turn them over.All of you here are "Western doctors" who are studying Western music, and I have to rely on you.It is not acceptable to ask drummers to set up music schools, these things still depend on you.

The Chinese revolution has Chinese characteristics.The Soviet Revolution took the form that the Soviet Union took at the time, and there were reasons why it had to.Lenin also thought of taking other measures against the bourgeoisie[8].But at that time the bourgeoisie did not believe that the Bolsheviks[9] would win, and they wanted to resist.The proletariat had no army at first, only 80,000 party members.Our situation is different from that of the Soviet Union.China is not an imperialist country.We have fought for more than twenty years, have an army, and have two million party members.China's national bourgeoisie is also oppressed by imperialism.Therefore, the revolution manifests itself differently.

Forms of expression should be different, in politics as well as in art.Especially for a country as big as China, it should be "unconventional", but it should be unconventional and popular with the masses.The more unconventional and different things that are welcomed by the masses, the more the better, not the same.The sameness becomes stereotyped.In the past, some people practiced stereotyped articles[10] for five or six hundred years.It is not good to have the same form everywhere.Women's clothing, like men's, is not durable.For a period of time after the victory of the revolution, women did not dress up, which was a sign of a change in atmosphere and a revolution. This is good, but it cannot last.Still want to diversify as well. National forms can be mixed with some foreign things.The novel must be a chapter novel, but it is not necessary; but the language and writing method should be Chinese.Lu Xun is nationalized, but he also advocates excellent translation.I am in favor of hard translation of theoretical books, which has the advantage of being accurate. The fundamental truth must be explained clearly: the basic principles should be learned from Western ones as well.The scalpel must be Chinese-style, it doesn't make sense.As far as medicine is concerned, it is necessary to use modern Western science to study the laws of traditional Chinese medicine and develop new Chinese medicine.The basic principles of music are the same in all countries, but they are used differently, and the forms of expression should be various.For example, when writing travel notes, we went to visit Fragrant Hills together. Although the places we visited were the same, each person’s writing was different. We must learn all the good things from foreign countries.For example, studying medicine, bacteriology, biochemistry, anatomy, pathology, these must be studied.We must also learn all the good things about China.We must pay attention to Chinese things, otherwise many studies will have no object.There are many things in Chinese history that have not been handed down.Tang Minghuang[11] could not be an emperor, the first half of the generation would do it, but the second half would not.He knows art, he is a director, and he can play drums, but he didn't pass things down.It depends on you.You are "Western medicine", but you want to Sinicize, you have to learn a set of things to study in China in the future, and Sinicize what you have learned. If you learn from foreign countries, you will not have confidence in China, which is not good.But that doesn't mean you don't want to learn from foreign countries. In modern culture, foreign countries are higher than ours, and we must admit this.Is this not the case with art? China is unique in one aspect, and foreign countries are superior to us in another aspect.For novels, foreign countries are rising stars, and we are lagging behind.Lu Xun understood both foreign and Chinese things, but he did not despise Chinese things.Only in terms of Chinese medicine and Peking opera, his views are not quite correct.Chinese medicine doctor died of his father.He still likes local opera. Confucius was an educator as well as a musician. He listed music as the first of the six courses[12] When we accept the advantages of foreign countries, our own things will make a leap forward.Chinese and foreign things should be organically combined, rather than applying foreign things mechanically.To learn how to weave hats from abroad, we must weave Chinese hats.We must learn useful things from foreign countries, use them to improve and develop Chinese things, and create new and unique Chinese things.You need to move some, but you should focus on your own things.I want "Dead Souls" [13], and I want "The True Story of Ah Q" [14].Lu Xun translated "Dead Soul", "Destruction"[15], etc., but his brilliance is not mainly in this aspect, but in his creation. Chinese culture should develop.If you don't know how to listen to or play foreign music, it's not good.It is wrong not to translate foreign works, and it is wrong for the Empress Dowager [16] to oppose "foreign devils".We must learn from foreign countries and learn to create Chinese things. Play some foreign music, don't be afraid.Most of the nine and ten pieces of music in the Sui and Tang dynasties were music from the Western Regions, as well as foreign music from Goryeo and India[17].Playing foreign music has not killed our own music, our music continues to evolve.If we can digest foreign music and absorb its strengths, it will be beneficial to us.In terms of culture, it is wrong to reject all foreign things, or to absorb them all. It should be more and more Chinese, not more and more Westernized.In this way the debate can be unified.We must oppose dogmatism and conservatism, both of which are not good for China.Learning from a foreign country does not mean copying everything.Learning from the ancients is for the living people today, and learning from foreigners is for the Chinese people today. Both Chinese and foreign countries must learn well.Half a bottle of vinegar is not acceptable. Two half bottles of vinegar must be turned into two one bottles of vinegar. This is not something like "Chinese learning for the body, Western learning for application" [18]. "Study" refers to basic theories, which are consistent between China and foreign countries, and should not be divided into Chinese and Western. It can be neither a donkey nor a horse.A mule is neither a donkey nor a horse.The combination of a donkey and a horse will change the image, but it will not remain completely unchanged.The appearance of China, whether it is politics, economy, or culture, should not be old and should be changed, but China's characteristics must be preserved.It should be on the basis of China and absorb foreign things.They should be mated and combined organically. Things in the West are also subject to change.Not everything in the West is good, and we have to make good use of it.We should critically absorb useful elements from the West on the basis of China itself. To absorb foreign things, we must change them and make them Chinese.Lu Xun's novels are not only different from foreign ones, but also different from ancient Chinese ones. They are modern Chinese ones. You are studying Western things, you are "Western medicine", and you are treasures. We should value you and rely on you.It is wrong for people who do not want to learn Western things to do things.We must admit that what they have learned is progressive, and we must admit that the modern West has taken a step forward.They do not admit this, but say that they are dogmatic and cannot convince others.Dogmatism must be rectified, but it must be rectified gently and gently.We must pay attention to them, but we must persuade them to pay attention to national things and not to completely Westernize.We should learn from the strengths of foreign countries, sort out Chinese ones, and create Chinese own things with unique national style.Only in this way can the truth be made sense, and the national confidence will not be lost. According to "People's Daily" published on September 9, 1979. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] This is a conversation between Mao Zedong and the head of the Chinese Musicians Association. [2] Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea, see note [2] on page 45 of this volume. [3] 38th line, see note [3] on page 66 of this volume. [4] The Second International, an international joint organization of socialist parties from various countries, was established in Paris in July 1889.Under the guidance and influence of Engels, the Second International basically maintained a revolutionary stance in the early days.After the death of Engels in 1895, opportunism in the parties of the Second International grew rapidly, and the Right wing headed by Bernstein and the Center headed by Kautsky occupied the leading positions of the Second International.After the outbreak of the First World War, most social democratic parties openly supported their bourgeois government to participate in the imperialist war. [5] Jiang Kanghu (1883-1954), born in Yiyang, Jiangxi.He traveled to Japan and Europe in his early years and was influenced by the opportunism of the Second International.After the Revolution of 1911, he flaunted socialism and founded the Socialist Party of China in Shanghai.In 1913, the party was dissolved.In 1924, he reorganized the Chinese Socialist Party in order to take refuge in the Beiyang warlords, and reorganized the party into the Chinese New Social Democratic Party the following year.In 1927, when the Northern Expedition was victorious, he had to disband his party.During the Anti-Japanese War, he joined the enemy and puppet government and degenerated into a traitor. [6] Marx said in "Introduction to Critique of Political Economy": "Human anatomy is a key to monkey anatomy. Conversely, the signs of higher animals that appear in lower animals can only be seen when the higher animals themselves have It can only be understood after being known. Therefore, the bourgeois economy provides the key to the ancient economy and so on." ("Selected Works of Marx and Engels", Volume 2, People's Publishing House, 1995 edition, p. 23) [7] The Tongcheng school is a school of ancient prose that advocates the integration of "righteousness", "textual research", and "rhetorical chapters". The main representatives are Fang Bao, Liu Dakui, and Yao Nai in the Kangxi and Qianlong years of the Qing Dynasty.Since they are all from Tongcheng, Anhui, later generations call them and their faction the Tongcheng faction.Not all writers of this school are from Tongcheng. [8] After the October Revolution, Lenin considered implementing a "redemption" policy for capitalists.Because of the civil war, and because the capitalist class generally took a stand against Soviet power, Lenin's vision of state capitalism did not work. [9] Bolshevik refers to the Bolshevik Party, the predecessor of the former Communist Party of the Soviet Union, which was formally established in 1912. [10] Eight-legged essay is a special style stipulated by the examination system of feudal dynasties in Ming and Qing Dynasties in China.Each eight-part essay is composed of eight parts: breaking the topic, inheriting the topic, starting the lecture, starting, starting the section, middle section, back section, and closing the section. "To solve the problem" generally uses two sentences to explain the essence of the problem. "Proceed to the topic" generally uses three to five sentences to explain the meaning of breaking the topic. "Starting to speak" summarizes the whole and is the beginning of the discussion. "Start" is the place where you start after the lecture.The four paragraphs of starting stock, middle stock, back stock and bundle stock are the formal discussions, and the middle stock is the focus of the whole text.In these four paragraphs, each paragraph has two pairs of parallel texts, and there are eight parts in total, so it is called eight parts, also known as eight ratios. [11] Tang Minghuang, that is, Tang Xuanzong Li Longji (685-762), reigned from 712 to 756 AD. [12] Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC), named Qiu, styled Zhongni, was born in Zouyi (now Qufu, Shandong).A thinker, statesman, educator, and founder of Confucianism in the late Spring and Autumn Period.The six courses (that is, the six arts) he established are: rites, music, archery, imperialism, calligraphy, and mathematics. [13] "Dead Souls", a novel written by Russian writer Gogol. [14] "The True Story of Ah Q", a masterpiece of Lu Xun's novels. [15] "Destruction", a novel written by the Soviet writer Fadeyev. [16] Empress Dowager Yehenara (1835-1908), the concubine of Emperor Xianfeng of the Qing Dynasty.After her son Zaichun (Emperor Tongzhi) ascended the throne in 1861, she was revered as Empress Dowager Cixi. Because she lived in the West Palace, she was also called Empress Dowager West.She was the actual ruler of the Tongzhi and Guangxu dynasties, and the general representative of the diehard forces in the late Qing Dynasty. She ruled domestically cruelly, compromised and surrendered externally, and at the same time blindly excluded the outside world.In 1898, she suppressed the Reform Movement of 1898, which advocated learning from the West. [17] The nine parts of music in the Sui Dynasty are: Qingyue, Xiliang, Qiuci, Tianzhu, Kangguo, Shule, Anguo, Goryeo, and Libi (according to "Sui Shu" Volume 15, under Music).The ten pieces of music in the Tang Dynasty are: Yanyue, Qingshang, Xiliang, Tianzhu, Goryeo, Kucha, Anguo, Shule, Kangguo, Gaochang .Among them, Qiuci, Kangguo, Anguo, Shule, and Gaochang all belonged to the Western Regions, Koryo was Korea, and Tianzhu was India. [18] "Chinese learning is the essence and Western learning is practical", this proposition about the relationship between Chinese learning and Western learning in modern China was put forward by Zhang Zhidong, a thinker of the Westernization School.He said in "Encouraging Learning: Establishing Learning": "The old learning is the body, and the new learning is the application, and it is not allowed to be partial." The so-called "middle school is the body" means to use the Confucian ethics and morals such as the three cardinal guides and five constant principles as the foundation of the country and cannot be changed. fundamental principles.The so-called "Western learning for application" refers to adopting some science and technology from Western capitalist countries as a means of maintaining the rule of China's feudal landlord class.