Chapter 27 My heart disease and my writing

Interviewer: Southern Weekly reporter Yang Ruichun Time: October 23, 2003 In 2003, Wu Si published a new book and lost a lawsuit.The new book is titled "The Law of Blood Remuneration--The Survival Game in Chinese History", which is in the same line as that famous book.Like the former, this book maintains the tradition of digging deep into history, analyzing and creating new concepts in detail, as well as a writing style that is both elegant and vulgar. Like the former, it received a lot of praise as soon as it was published. The lawsuit also started because of the book. In late April 2002, "Beijing Youth Daily" serialized Wu Si's "Chen Yonggui: Mao Zedong's Peasant". ", and was a representative of the Dazhai Village Puppet Maintenance Association. Wu Sihe and the "Beijing Youth Daily" were sued by Chen Yonggui's wife and son, claiming that a large number of plots in the book did not match the facts, and many The plot is arbitrarily fabricated by the author. In April 2003, the Beijing Xicheng District Court announced that Wu Si and the Beijing Youth Daily had infringed on Chen Yonggui's right of reputation, and ordered Wu Si to pay Chen Yonggui's relatives 20,000 yuan in compensation for mental damage, and "Beijing Youth Daily" to pay 2,000 yuan. Yuan.Wu Sihe and the "Beijing Youth Daily" were dissatisfied and immediately appealed. On July 15, 2003, the Beijing No. 1 Intermediate People's Court held a hearing on the case.

Regarding the loss of the first instance of this lawsuit, what do you think is the biggest question? The most important thing is that the court considered the four pieces of evidence I submitted to be insufficient in authority, and considered it insufficient to prove the fact that Chen Yonggui had participated in the Xingya Conference and served as a false representative. The evidence you presented should mostly be the memories of the parties involved, right?For a historical issue like this, what kind of evidence is more authoritative and can be recognized as fact by the court? We also raised this issue later.I think the evidences of the several parties I presented, especially the evidence of the authoritative parties, are very credible, and these evidences are intertwined and support each other.The hardest evidence I have comes from Xie Zhenhua, director of the Shanxi Provincial Revolutionary Committee and Secretary of the Provincial Party Committee at the time, who was also the leader of the qualification review team for the Ninth National Congress of the Communist Party of China.He wrote in his memoirs that Chen Yonggui once cried to him that he had participated in the Xingya Conference and served as a false representative, and he once said, "I want to go to Beijing to plead guilty to Chairman Mao." We got his signature again in the second trial. testimony.There is also Fan Yinhuai, a reporter from Xinhua News Agency who was one of the authors of the famous newsletter "Road to Dazhai" at that time. He said that he was ordered by the head office to check the time when Chen Yonggui joined the party, because no one could tell, and then he went to the organization department of the county party committee. I checked the files and found the party membership application form at that time. In the column of what reactionary organizations he had participated in, he filled in "Participated in Xingya Association".There is also a memoir article, which is also a first-hand evidence.As indirect evidence, Chen Yonggui's son wrote in the article "Recalling My Father Chen Yonggui", to the effect that my father had been a false representative, but the point of view was that in that special situation, This behavior objectively protects everyone.

Is this the son who is being sued this time? No, it was the youngest son who sued me, and the eldest son who wrote the article.But the youngest son later asked the eldest son to issue a certificate, saying that he did not write the article.However, his reminiscence article was published in the anthology of literature and history materials in Shanxi Province, where someone dictated it, and someone recorded it clearly. So, what stronger evidence can you produce in the second trial stage? We now have a document forwarded by the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China in 1980 to the Organization Department of the Central Committee. This document is the "Review Conclusion on Comrade Chen Yonggui's Historical Issues", and finally signed and agreed by Chen Yonggui himself.The historical issues of Chen Yonggui mentioned in my book are included in this document, and they are more specific.

So are you now confident about winning this lawsuit? No, after our evidence was submitted, there has been no news until now.With the failure of the first trial, I don't dare to be too optimistic now, because you don't know where and what will happen... It is said that you did not hire a lawyer at all in the first instance? Yeah, it's so insignificant, I defended myself in court.Because I think I'm a sure winner in this matter, I think it's not easy?At that time, I summed it up myself and found that there were six or seven pieces of evidence that could corroborate each other, so I selected four or five pieces of evidence.I thought, can a lawyer do a better job than me?The other party said that I fabricated, created something out of nothing, and damaged the right of reputation. I can fully prove that I am not fabricated at all.In fact, if we put in a little effort at that time, we should be able to get more things, but we were too lazy to get them.

So how did you behave in court? As strong as a cow (laughs).At that time, I stated my evidence one by one, and the other party replied every time, "It's not a fact" and "It's not a fact."The people listening below were very quiet at first, but they chattered a little when they said "it's not true" the second or third time, and laughed when they said it the fourth time.So after I finished speaking, I asked the lawyer of "Beijing Youth Daily", "Is it possible to win?" She said, "I can't be sure." Not sure?So at the end of the courtroom after the verdict was pronounced, I asked the lawyer of Beijing Youth Daily, "Do you think it's strange?" She said, "It's not strange." I said, "This is too strange, why did you lose? ?”

Did this matter touch you deeply? I have a kind of pleasure of being slaughtered, that is, not only pain, but also pleasure, and I think this is really exciting.Because it shows the truth of reality vividly and without concealment.The understanding of China's judicial status and the operation of various relationships through this incident is enough to compensate for this period of pain. For a person who studies unspoken rules, is it a bit naive to be surprised by such a reality? If you talk about it in general terms, is there such a thing?Is there such an unspoken rule?I think there is no problem, there will definitely be, such things are not rare in history, and they are not rare today, but I always feel that it is really not easy for people to erase all pretense.So logically speaking, it is very different from what happens to you. This is a very full emotion. When it happens to others, you will feel that you understand the indignation of the person concerned, but when it really happens to you, that kind of surge You will experience the emotions and subtle things.This is the gap between knowledge and experience.

Interestingly, the book that caused you a lawsuit is an old book more than ten years ago. Yes, this is a book written in 1992, and it was a coincidence that Beijing Youth Daily was short of serialized things that year. For some reason, it reminded me of this book and started to serialize it, so it sued me.Why didn't you report it before?I may be afraid that the book will become popular after being sued, but once it is serialized in Beiqing Daily, the social impact will be great. How did you get the idea to write a book about Chen Yonggui in the first place? At that time, I was working in the "Farmer's Daily", and it was also a supplement that wanted to serialize a work. At that time, the newspaper encouraged me to try to write something of 30,000 to 50,000 words, but after I read all the materials of Chen Yonggui, I found that these materials were enough. In support of a very decent and complete book, so it was written.

From "Chen Yonggui" to then, what is the connection between these three books? In fact, my focus has always been only one, which is to solve my inner problems. I wrote about Chen Yonggui because I studied Dazhai very seriously. When I jumped into the queue, I was an ultra-left educated youth. As the deputy secretary of the brigade, I led the members to learn from Dazhai. I forced everyone to work like a foreman or a slave owner. , And also like a tragic actor, not afraid of hardships or tiredness, set an example and took the lead, but in the end I failed, the members refused to work hard, and I couldn't mobilize everyone's enthusiasm.I have been brooding about this matter, and I have been thinking about why it failed?Writing about Chen Yonggui is actually answering my question. After I finished writing, my heart disease was relieved-this is not my business.Back then, like Chen Yonggui, I fought against a very powerful force.There are 80 farmers in Dazhai. From the perspective of material incentives, the people's commune system is quite different from the big contract.Under the big contract, how much you do or how little you do is all yours, but in the collective system, if you dig 80 picks hard, you only have one pick, and if you are lazy and plan less 80 picks, you only lose one pick.Only relying on the moral appeal of the leaders and the pressure of the administration cannot make up for the 79 picks in a long-term and stable manner. Therefore, the production capacity and labor enthusiasm of the commune members will definitely be compared with the big contract.When you're up against such a powerful humanity, my failure is easy to explain.The failure of the entire agricultural policy at that time and the shattering of Chen Yonggui's dream are also easy to explain.

After this problem is solved, the following is the problem I encountered when I was a reporter. At that time, I found that the corrupt officials you really encountered were not very bad. When you deal with them, you will find that if you are in their position, Likely to do what they did.When you knock him down and look back in two months, you may find that the problem is still there, the place is still the same, it's just that person, because he was unlucky to meet you.When I was a reporter at that time, I was also very idealistic, rushing towards the windmill like Don Quixote, but when I retreated, I found this big problem, so I also failed as a reporter, and encountered The second question of life.This book is to solve this problem.

A huge success, so how could it have been thought of again? As I mentioned in this book, the basis behind many human behaviors is not the impulse to seek profit, but the impulse to avoid harm.What is behind the impulse to avoid harm?What kind of trade-offs and conversions happened deep inside?I can't think of words, I can't think any more, and I just froze here.This is the difficulty of logical development.In addition, the "hidden rules" discuss the relationship between officials and the people, but if you look at "Water Margin" and "Three Kingdoms", everyone knows that history has never been just the relationship between the two, and the underworld has gradually entered the past two years. To our vision, they also joined the social distribution.Both legal violence and illegitimate violence are involved in the allocation of resources.There must always be an explanation for this distribution.For a while, I was thinking about the kidnapping all day long, and I always wanted to explain the kidnapping, but one day I suddenly thought, isn’t kidnapping a life-saving act?The bandits risk their lives, and the kidnapped pay for their lives, and there is a "ticket price", the price depends on the payment ability and willingness of the person concerned, some people are cheap, some people are expensive, and the price of life is very different .So, what is this kind of life-saving money or life-buying money called?I once thought of seventeen or eighteen words to express this meaning, and then I thought of "blood reward", so I decided on it.With this concept, many problems can be easily solved.We know that the remuneration of labor is called wages, and the remuneration of capital is called profit. With these words, thinking can be settled, analysis can be carried out, and discoveries such as surplus value become possible.

Can it be said that unspoken rules refer to "official circles", while blood rewards refer to "bandits"? In fact, the winner is the king and the loser is Kou.Many official things go back to their origin, and they also come from blood rewards.When Liu Bang and Zhu Yuanzhang fought the world, what did they use to motivate the soldiers to work hard?Think about the high-tech companies that are now fighting for human resources. What do they use to motivate employees to work hard?Give the employees some stock options, and if you do it well, the company will be listed in the future, and the value of the stocks in everyone's hands will increase, and everyone will get rich.Fighting the world is a typical empty glove white wolf business, which especially needs this kind of incentive system.Once the country is conquered, the one who contributed the most will be crowned the king, followed by the marquis, and the soldiers at the bottom will also be given a few acres of cultivated land according to Liu Bang's policy.What is nobility?It is a valuable identity in exchange for capital, like a stock that can bring returns.The iron hat kings of the Qing Dynasty took tens of thousands of taels of silver every year, and they were hereditary and did not replace them, that is, they were eating their ancestors' blood.Ordinary soldiers in the Eight Banners of the Qing Dynasty also had a fixed income, known as iron stalk crops.Not to mention the royal descendants.To a considerable extent, imperial grain and national tax are the rewards for entrepreneurs and wealthy families to conquer the world. When I read your third book, I was very inspired, but also a little disappointed. Why? In this book, what you tell everyone is a very new thing, that is to say, this phenomenon, this rule, everyone has noticed, or is in it intentionally or unintentionally, but only you put it in this way When I took it out, it really made people feel suddenly enlightened.In this book, you talked about "meta-rules", that is, the principle that violence determines everything. This is a step deeper, but isn't this the principle of Social Darwinism?Isn't it the principle of "natural selection" that we usually talk about?So I think when you come to the "meta-rule", what you speak is vernacular and common sense. In my self-feeling, the "law of blood reward" is actually more exciting than the "hidden rules", and it expresses more important things, and it is something that "everyone has in their hearts, and everyone has nothing in their pens".What does it mean that monkeys risk their lives to fight for the position of monkey king, so as to get the priority of eating and mating?This means that they have completed the balance and conversion of life and survival and reproduction resources in their hearts, and they will fight if they have a chance of winning, and they will fight if they suffer heavy losses.This kind of trade-off has a history longer than humans itself, and it is also common sense in the minds of animals, but it is not easy to make this meaning clear.The common sense about the operation of the market has existed for thousands of years, but it has only been nearly a hundred years since microeconomics used the supply and demand curve to explain this kind of thing clearly. The "law of blood reward" may have this effect.With this word, we can further analyze the exchange relationship between life and resources.With the law of blood reward, the value of violence can be calculated.Discussing meta-rules on this basis, it is no longer a vague common sense, but knowledge that can be verified or falsified. But isn't the so-called law of the jungle the same?Can you talk more explicitly about the difference between meta-rules and jungle rules? I don't have a systematic understanding of the rules of the jungle. I have only read "Leviathan" written by the British philosopher Hobbes. society.But he did not follow this theory to the end.According to his description, everyone found that this way of robbing each other was unbearable and uneconomical, so they agreed to transfer part of their rights to a sovereign. Only this sovereign can legally use violence to maintain public order.Hobbes' theory is still based on the theory of contract, everyone negotiates to handle affairs, but I think this basis is not in line with historical facts.The real history is precisely that you did not discuss it. My so-called meta-rule is precisely the one with the most violent power, not the contract theory that is the mainstream and foundation of Western social theory. How do you define the style of your writing? When we look at it, we always feel a little doubtful. It is an academic paper?Is it prose?Or is it a bit like persuading the world?In short, it feels a bit different. I never knew what I was. Some people said that I was a scholar. I said that I was not that knowledgeable. Scholars were a dynasty, and all the relationships between characters and historical events were studied in a solid manner. I never studied it thoroughly. any dynasty.I am neither a writer nor a reporter, but I think I have returned to the basics—how does Zhuangzi write?How did Mencius write?You say it is literature, is it a fable?is history?or talk?At that time, there was no classification of style as it is today. I just wanted to say something, so I just said it well.I think I can say things well in this way, and people still like to read it, so write it like this, no matter what it is. In fact, this method is to tell the historical facts, explain the truth behind the facts thoroughly, generalize and extract it as much as possible.People's lives and people's cognition are such a mixture of sensibility and rationality, our writing should conform to people's cognition. Is your writing style related to your experience as a reporter? Maybe it has something to do with the writing training that journalists receive, that is, how to tell a story well, tell it plainly, and don't play tricks.In fact, the most intensive training was to write about Chen Yonggui. At that time, all I had was a pile of files and materials. I wanted to concentrate everything on a story with a beginning and an end, so Chen Yonggui’s book became fifty or sixty. Stories connected end to end.For a year, I have to face these boring archives every day, some of which are not even incidents, and some are just a speech, so you have to see what is behind it.It is more accurate to say that when an event happens, it looks like a mess, but you look at it from a certain angle, it is a story.It depends on whether you can find this angle. "Unspoken rules" is actually a vocabulary you created, but it is very strange, but it seems that this word has been used as a basic vocabulary by everyone in a few years, which should be said to be rare.Have you ever wondered why this word has such a strong vitality? Because this concept expresses the feeling that is universal in everyone's mind.Everyone knows that there is such a thing, such a thing exists widely in life, and many people are holding back to explain it clearly.It may be that I was lucky and happened to say the word, and the voice was relatively loud, and then the spark fell on the dry wood.Others say it, in fact, the effect is the same.I guess sooner or later someone will come up with this kind of concept.But I think that the term "the law of blood reward" cannot be created by luck, but by painstaking efforts.I am afraid that this word is not so easy to spread, but it may be deeper and stay longer. Do you consider yourself a historian? If you just write about Chen Yonggui, can you say you are a historian?But if you write about Wang Anshi, are you a historian?For example, if you have the same understanding of real life and human relations about events 500 years ago, you are a historian. In terms of the accumulation and mastery of historical materials, I am not a historian at all, but when it comes to the views and judgments on history, I think those famous Chinese historians are not necessarily better than me.I have also experienced many things they have experienced, and I have also suffered many sufferings they have suffered. I now have more theoretical weapons that they lack than they do.So I don't think I'm weaker than them in terms of knowledge, maybe even stronger than them. Yes, I saw at the back of this book, there is a conversation between you and Gan Qi, which means that what Huang Renyu didn't say, you said.At that time, I felt that this person was really confident --- can the words just said be delivered?Are you not afraid of being scolded? (laugh) Okay, that's what I thought.In fact, I respect Huang Renyu very much. His writing style actually has a great influence on me, but I don’t agree with his theory of digital management and China’s sandwich structure. These are inexplicable statements. After all, this person has only played I have never engaged in production before, so I don't know where the real crux of life lies.Unlike our generation, who have experienced the strangest experiments of mankind, what we have seen are rare ups and downs in human history. Usually, it takes three to five hundred years in human history to have so many ups and downs.After going through all this, it’s really hard to find water in the sea. It’s a kind of luck for us. If we have this kind of luck and there are so many accumulations from our predecessors, and we can’t say anything beyond our predecessors, it’s not normal—— I'm talking nonsense, blah blah blah (laughs). Are you worried that a book like this may be read as a kind of book, and become some kind of "advanced officialdom"? Then I can't help it. It's like gunpowder. When it was invented to make firecrackers, some people insisted on using it as shells to blow up others. The same thing depends on how you use it.But you should still do the math.On the one hand, some people in the officialdom use it to do bad things; on the other hand, the common people have seen the truth clearly and will no longer be confused by false appearances.Even if the balance is paid, is the rest positive or negative?I think it is a positive number.You don’t even have to tell him about the activities in the officialdom. He already knows it without a teacher. It’s like the calculations in his mind when he was fighting for the monkey king. Few people can explain clearly, but monkeys can count.Ordinary people are not the same, they are far away, and the government seems to be unpredictable. If you don't tell them, they will be kept in the dark, and they need to pay a great price to understand. Did you expect it to have an impact on real problems? History and reality naturally influence each other. When I was writing, I always had a kind of contemplation of real problems.Anyone who reads or writes history is constrained by the era he lives in. This era determines my interests, my vision, what I see and what I want to write.Going back 30 years, I would definitely not write these things today, and I would not be able to write them if I wanted to. You may think that a person who sees through everything is easily a pessimistic person. Are you such a person? No, I'm often an aggressive person. So if you imagine the situation where you are placed in your own book, will you also drift with the flow? I won't completely follow the trend, but I won't be as bad as Hai Rui, I will "imitate", just like the protective colors of animals, I will make some protective colors that can avoid disasters in this environment .Of course, this may be a lie, and it is not the case when you really get stuck.At least, when I think about it now, I always have an original intention in my heart, temporarily yielding to these things, for the sake of completely eradicating these things in the future. When writing, do you often put yourself in it? I will, I often do this, and I can't stretch myself a few times while writing.Once when I wrote about Hai Rui, I copied some historical materials and copied them to the riverside for hundreds of miles. I burst into tears as I wrote.God has a conscience.In addition, it is written that the people of the Ming Dynasty welcomed Li Zicheng, stopped giving him food, and cried a lot.Ashamed, such a big man is still crying.