Chapter 26 Interpretation of Gray Social Dialogue

Guo: The continuation of your work recently has aroused great social repercussions, but some people think that your thinking frame is not separated from it. What do you think? Wu: Of course, these two books seek a penetrating interpretation of Chinese history, a realistic Chinese game rule that does not appear on the table, but does work.What is different in China is that I want to focus on answering an old question, why is someone entitled to collect rent by violence and get people's cooperation?There will be gray income, but it is necessary to delve into why some people are eligible for gray income.The law of blood reward is to unravel a certain calculation method in people's hearts.We know that the income obtained in exchange for labor is called wages, the income obtained in exchange for land is called rent, and the income obtained in exchange for capital is called interest. So what is the income obtained in exchange for bloodshed?I call it "blood pay".This concept can not only explain the essence of those robbers and horse thieves extracting money by means of harming others, but also explain the rise and fall of the world concisely and powerfully.When we say that the process of conquering the world is the process of exchanging life for resources for survival; the system of dominating the country is a system in which the resources for survival seized by violence are legalized.

Guo: We usually say that "the winner is the king, and the loser is the bandit", which is the logic of the strong, but there is another saying that "the one who wins the hearts of the people wins the world." It means that the ruler must have the foundation of public opinion.To explain these two contradictory sentences, there is also the third sentence, "If you get the right way, you will get more help, but if you don't have the right way, you will get little help." What do you think is the most important way for a ruler? Wu: The greatest function of a ruler is to maintain social order. What the common people fear most is chaos, and what they hope most is peace.Of course, rulers will decorate themselves to look morally noble, but for the common people, what they care about is not who is morally noble or not, but who can maintain social order, which is the way to win the world.Imagine that there are many bandits on a piece of land. If you come to rob it today, they will come to rob it tomorrow. The common people will suffer the most.This is one of the most powerful bandits among these bandits. They beat the other bandits away and told the common people that you will not be raided by other bandits in the future, and all the protection fees will be handed over to me.This bandit may have done a lot of bad things in the past, but ordinary people don't care about these, because such people are often the most vicious and can drive other bandits away.

Guo: Our textbooks often describe bandits in a stereotyped way. They are often forced to go to Liangshan.However, I have been to some places in Shanxi and Northeast China, and old people often say that "reactionary warlords" like Yan Xishan and Zhang Zuolin, who are half official and half bandit, have also done a lot of work in developing the economy and establishing education in the local area. Wu: This is a law, no matter whether his reputation is a bandit or not, as long as he is not a bandit and occupies a piece of his own territory, his income will come from this land in the foreseeable future. Local economic development, which is in his own interest.Killing the goose to get the egg is the stupidest thing to do.What he wants to prevent is other rogues from invading this territory, while working hard to expand his own territory.And when he has further strength and ambition, he is no longer satisfied with being a small local emperor who wants to conquer the country and rule the world. He wants to find a banner, such as "the tiller has his land", "the king of Chuang does not pay food", at least It is a grandiose slogan that can package one's own ambitions, so the bandits became "rebels".

Guo: "Underworld" is a very ambiguous term. When people talk about "underworld" in a general sense, it often has some moral connotations, such as being associated with black hearts and vicious wrists, but these are extreme examples. How would you rate the majority of the neither-good-nor-bad Keepers we've faced? Wu: I used the word "grey society" in the past to describe this situation. There are differences in the degree of "blackness" in various societies.But my article will give people a misunderstanding. It seems that all societies are as black as crows, but this is not the case.To explain this problem clearly, we must first clarify a modern concept. The government and the political power do not unilaterally rule or manage the people, but provide public services to the people. People pay taxes not to express their submission, but as a transaction in exchange for public services Behavior.

Guo: It's like the relationship between the residents of the community and the property management company is not the relationship between the ruler and the ruled, but one provides public services and the other pays property management fees. Wu: Yes, this is the relationship between the government and the people in an ideal state. We must not call this kind of relationship gangsterization, because it is a fair transaction.So when did we say that this kind of relationship started to turn black? Let’s use the real estate company as an example. Your community called a real estate company. At the beginning, it said it was really good, and it didn’t take advantage of the residents. It took you 100 yuan. The management fee will provide you with a service of 100 yuan or even 120 yuan. Would you not be happy?This real estate company has a group of security guards, and its strength is getting stronger and stronger. Soon you will find that something is wrong, the service provided is getting worse and worse, and the charges are getting higher and higher.That's not to mention, they dragged their relatives and friends, seven aunts, and eight aunts into the property company. They only take money and do nothing, and they ignore you when you raise opinions.You come to your senses and say, no, we have to change to another property company if this continues.At this time, they pulled their faces down: We spent all our money and drove away other property companies to occupy this place. Now you let us go, we will go. Is it so easy?Seeing that they have also bought and controlled the owner's committee, if you dare to raise an opinion again, he will say that you interfere with the security of the community and let the security guard clean you up, so you have to admit it.At this point, the community has almost turned into a gangster, and the residents can only passively accept the world.The same is true of the regime. We often say "the country was bought with the blood of the martyrs."A powerful government like Iraq is the biggest underworld. Although they also hold elections in name, the people only have the power to support, and there is no power not to support, and they still rely on guns to support them.

Guo: There is a point of view that public services are not like ordinary commodities, and they are less comparable. Like selling Chinese cabbage, anyone can tell whether it is good or bad. For those who are officials, good or bad cannot be seen at a glance. The cost of selection is relatively high, and if it is really impossible, there is another excuse: the national conditions are different. Wu: This is the saddest thing. If the government collects a tax of 100 yuan and provides 95 yuan of public services, and the other 5 yuan is used as a dental sacrifice, the common people may not feel it. If the government collects 100 yuan, it will The 50 yuan is all for the cadres to enjoy, and the common people can't feel it?However, the bureaucrats of a regime often monopolize violence as a social group, control the law, and control huge manpower and material resources. Their actions determine the fate of the society and the people to a large extent.When I wrote about Hai Rui, when I wrote about Hai Rui being dismissed from office and the common people were crying to send him off, the more I wrote down the more uncomfortable I couldn't help but cry a lot.The common people are so pitiful!These so-called grassroots people all know in their hearts what kind of officials are good to them and what kind of officials are not in their interests, but they have no choice but to passively accept the cadres sent from above. It has become the national condition of China and the destiny of the Chinese people.

Guo: There is a phenomenon at present, as long as the top leaders of a place wholeheartedly serve the people, the place can be run well, and the official style of the place will be better. On the contrary, if there is a problem with the top leaders, the whole team will rot.Some people think that this shows that a person's moral cultivation has a great appeal to the entire bureaucratic collective, so it is especially necessary to increase the promotion of positive people at present. What do you think? Wu: This charisma is relative, and I like to look at it from another angle.One person decides a whole team, which just shows that the official appointment system here is top-down, not bottom-up.Maybe some people's moral inspiration is more effective. For most people, his choice is still based on the precise calculation of his own interests. Whoever can decide his own destiny, I have to please him.Therefore, in places where there is no democratic procedure, the face of the leader is the most important thing. If a leader happens to love the people like his own grandson, the cadres must at least treat the people well in order to please the superiors. He likes whomever he gives gifts to, so this cadre doesn't have to care about the common people.For each individual in such a bureaucratic system, the most important thing is not the charisma of the leader, but the maximization of his own interests.

Guo: The problem now is that it is very difficult to fight corruption if you are not a top leader, but it is also not easy to fight corruption when you are a leader. Some cadres really want their relatives to deny corruption, and they are often under great pressure from their surroundings, just like Hai Rui hundreds of years ago Show people in a tragic gesture. Wu: This shows the limitations of top-down supervision. Many people think that the superiors are the best to fool. No matter how clean a leader is, he cannot supervise so many people with ten eyes.Even if this person is morally noble and energetic, watching everyone’s every move, as you said, the six relatives do not recognize each other, the final result is very likely that this person will eventually desert all relatives, because he broke the unspoken rules, not only his colleagues hated him, but his secretary scolded him behind his back , even his driver finds it boring to work with him, so he may not go well in all aspects.Conversely, if he protects the cadres around him well, even if the common people scold him, it will have no effect on his official career.At this time, he will reflect and make a trade-off.

Guo: Under this institutional framework, assuming a good person is the leader, according to your deduction, what is the optimal strategy he adopts in restraining his subordinates? Wu: In the end, the only way to do it is to use the idea of ​​contracting the responsibility. To put it nicely, it is called the decentralization of responsibilities.In fact, there are precedents for this. In the past, Emperor Daoguang once went out to inspect and found that in the management of horses in various post stations, false reports, embezzlement, and private use were very serious. You can't control it, you just need to set a task standard for them, as long as they have the ability to complete the task, let them be greedy.It's the same now, if you want to keep the Wu Shamao, you have to do it, complete the task without causing trouble.In other words, there are two bottom lines here. The first is as long as you have completed the tasks assigned by your superiors, such as family planning and public grain collection.The second is that the common people cannot be forced to rebel, and now the common people cannot be forced to go to Beijing to appeal.As long as these two items are guaranteed, other theories can be opened and closed.And within the scope of these two bottom lines, officials at all levels have a lot of room to play.

Guo: I remember Li Changping giving an example in his book. In Qipan Township, there were less than 15 administrative cadres in 1986, only 3 financial and tax cadres, only 2 in the police station, and no industrial and commercial office or judicial office.The burden on farmers is also light, and ordinary people pay more than 10 yuan per mu for farming.At present, there are more than 2,000 cadres, teachers and cadres working outside Qipan Township in the township.Why is the expansion of ten years so fast? Wu: Or because there is no truly effective force to restrict this group.In fact, the ranks of officials have become a huge burden on the common people. What is even more frightening is that these locust-like cadres have formed a powerful group. Although there are many common people, they are not organized, so no matter how many they are, they are still vulnerable groups. This powerful group is actually a group of "rentiers". Their situation is much more attractive than that of farmers who plan food in the fields. Li Hongzhang also said that it is best to be an official in China, so it is like a snowball.It is too difficult to strip them out, because apart from "managing people", often they already know nothing.

Guo: After reading your book, many people have a feeling of "so what if you explain it clearly", and returning to the present life will only add to your troubles. Wu: I think there is still a positive direction in my article, that is, democracy.And don't take democracy as an empty slogan. Democracy is not a panacea, but at least it is the most effective way to solve corruption and government expansion. What I am talking about here is real democracy, not another kind of mob dictatorship.Bottom-up supervision is always more effective than top-down supervision. In the past, there was a saying that "the eyes of the masses are discerning." This is the truth.This sentence does not mean that ordinary people are better than officials, but that ordinary people have the most enthusiasm for monitoring corruption.Because if these officials provide high-quality public services, these people will benefit directly, and if these officials do not act, or even do evil, then it is these people who will directly suffer.So they have the greatest driving force to pick a good cadre, and this kind of supervision is also the most effective supervision for officials.We usually publicize that everyone should be a good cadre like Kong Fansen and Jiao Yulu to serve the people. In fact, the effect is very limited. No propaganda is needed. As long as the people's choice can determine the fate of officials, there is no need to teach them to serve the people wholeheartedly. , from flattering the superiors to flattering the people. Guo: I went to the countryside for research and talked with a village cadre a while ago. When I talked about the issue of confiscating the "three mentions and five reunifications", he said that Chinese farmers should actually speak up. "It's justified, unless they are forced to go on, they will generally not resist.I wonder if it is the tenacity and patience of the Chinese people that make it more difficult for China to make progress in the system compared with "impatient" nations like South Korea? Wu: This is an important issue, that is, the expectations of ordinary people.This expectation is caused by historical accumulation. From this perspective, we can say "what kind of people produce what kind of government." If ordinary people have been slaves for thousands of years, you will treat them badly. He thinks this is destined Yes, we are ordinary people. If you treat him a little bit better, he will be grateful to Dade. The government does some practical things for him. He doesn’t think it should be. He can’t wait to kneel down and thank Lord Qingtian. This kind of society is very good. Governance is also particularly difficult to progress.That's why some people belched and sighed, "What a wonderful people!" The final result of the common people's patience is that the standard of corruption is gradually relaxed. When Liu Qingshan and Zhang Zishan were first liberated, the current value of their corruption is twelve, Thirty thousand, he was executed without saying a word, and now such a case is ignored at all, and the common people feel that there are many such people, and the crime should not be punished.If we want to build a clean society, we must first build a democratic society, and to build a democratic society is basically to let the people mature, change the expectations of the people, let them know their rights, and understand that they are the ones owner of the land. --Finish--