Chapter 13 Chapter Ten Everyone Has Weaknesses

One night many years ago, when I came home from my stumbling college days, my parents and I were having beer and pizza at a Uniondale restaurant on Long Island.As I was biting into the pie, my mother asked me somberly, "John, have you ever had sex with a woman?" I tried to swallow that pie.In the mid-60s, a 19- or 20-year-old was not used to being pressed by his mother like that.I turned to my father, expecting him to make a rescue, but he put on a cold face.He was as caught off guard as I was. "Hey, have you ever been?" She asked forcefully.Her surname is not for nothing.

"Er... yes, mother. I did." I saw the sudden change on my mother's face. "Who is she, then?" she asked again. "Uh... well..." I walked into the restaurant with the appetite seemingly lost. "Several, actually." I didn't tell her the truth. One of them was fifteen or sixteen, whom I met at the Bozeman Home for Unwed Mothers.But you would think that I simply confessed to her that I had dismembered them, and that the bodies were hidden in the basement. "Who wants you as a husband now?" she exclaimed. I turned again to my unusually silent father.Stop pretending, Dad!Come and help me!

"Oh, I don't know, Dolores. It's not such a big deal these days." "It's always a 'big thing,' Jack," she retorted, before turning to me again, "John, if your future bride asks you one day if you've had sex with any other woman before you met her relationship, what should I do?" I stopped swallowing. "Oh, mother, I'll tell her the truth." "No, don't tell the truth," my father screamed. "What do you mean, Jack?" asked the mother.Well done, Dad, let's see how you end up this time. The interrogation ended in an unpleasant atmosphere.I can't tell if I got anything out of this conflict.Either I told Pam the truth about my past, or she had doubts about it.In any case, she did agree to marry me, despite my mother's fear that no one would.But when I look back at the interrogation from my perspective as a federal law enforcement officer, profiler, and expert in criminal behavior and psychology, I realize an important lesson.Even a person like me who has undergone various trainings and rich analytical experience, if I face my mother's questioning again, I still can't answer better!

That's because she poked me where it hurts, and I had to be honest. Let me give you another example.Since becoming the lead profiler for the FBI, I have personally selected and trained all the other profilers.As a result, I have a great relationship and work closely with all the men and women who have worked in Corey.Most of them have become dazzling stars in their own right.However, if I can say that I have ever had a protégé, it is Greg Cooper.Greg came here in his early thirties, having given up his respectable job as police chief in a Utah town.He had heard Ken Lanning and Bill Hagemeier speak at a law enforcement seminar and decided to join the FBI.He had done well in the Seattle field station, but had longed to come to Quantico to work in the behavioral science department.He had asked to see and study my profiling and analysis of the Green River murders.He volunteered to be my driver and guide during my flight to Seattle for an audience-participating television special called "The Killer."When I became chief of the reorganized Investigative Support Section, Greg was working in the Bureau's permanent Orange County, California, office and living in Laguna Niguel.I transferred him to Quantico, and he went on to be a standout.

When he first transferred to Corey, Greg was assigned to share a windowless basement office with Jana Monroe.Jana worked as a police officer and homicide detective in California before working as a secret agent.There are many good qualities in her, and by coincidence, she is also a charming blonde beauty.In other words, she has it all in one.Suffice it to say, not many men find this arrangement uncomfortable.However, Greg is a devout Mormon, a man of integrity and family-oriented, with five lovely children and a charming wife.Rhonda.For Rhonda, moving from sunny, heavenly California to sweltering, humid, sleepy Virginia was a major sacrifice.Whenever she asked him about his office colleagues, Greg faltered and tried to deflect the subject.

Finally, about six months after he arrived in our department, Greg took Rhonda to a Christmas party hosted by Corey.I wasn't there because I was away on a case, but Jana, who was very lively by nature, was there.For an event like a gala, she naturally opted for a delicate, understated, fitted red evening gown with a low neckline. When I got back, Corey's second-in-command, Jim Wright, who succeeded me as profiling project manager, told me that Rhonda and Greg had gotten into a fight after the party.Rhonda was very unhappy that he was in such a small space all day with a charming, tough, beautiful female agent who was as good on the dance floor as she was on the shooting range.

So I asked my secretary to call Greg out of the meeting and just said I wanted to see him right away.He came to my office with a sad look on his face.He has just transferred here for half a year, and this is his dream place, so he really wants to do a good job. I looked up at him and said, "Greg, close the door. Please sit down." He sat down, more disturbed by my tone. "I just got off the phone with Rhonda," I went on, "and I know you're in some trouble." "Did you just get off the phone with Rhonda?" He didn't even dare to look at me, his eyes were fixed on the telephone with call indication function on the desk.

"Listen, Greg," I said in the most comforting tone of a counsellor, "I was trying to cover you, but if you're out on the street with Jana, there's nothing I can do. This kind of thing You'll have to deal with it on your own. Rhonda obviously understands what's going on between you and Jana..." "There's nothing going on between me and Jana!" he said angrily. "I know there is a lot of pressure in this kind of work. But, you have a wonderful wife and some lovely children. Don't waste your efforts." "John, it's not what you think it is, and it's not what she thinks it is. You have to trust me." During this time, his eyes have been fixed on the telephone, maybe he is thinking that if he concentrates, He could set the telephone on fire and set the desk on fire.He broke out in a cold sweat.I saw his carotid artery throbbing.Seeing that he is going to die.

At this juncture, I see good and call it a day. "Look at you, you poor wretch!" I laughed triumphantly. "How dare you call yourself an interrogator?" he was writing a chapter on interrogation for the Handbook of Classification of Crime. "Have you ever done anything wrong?" "No, John. I could swear it!" "Look! You're just at my mercy! You're completely innocent. You've been a police chief. You're a seasoned interrogator. And yet I can play you like a fool. What else do you have?" to say?" At that moment, he felt relieved, and beads of sweat rolled down his bald head.He had nothing more to say, but he got the gist of my conversation.I could push him around in this way, and I've been dealt with with equal success before, and when that happens again, I'll be dealt with just as successfully.

We all have weaknesses, no matter how knowledgeable you are, how extensive your experience is, how many times you have successfully interrogated suspects;Each of us can be subdued—if only you can manage to find out which weaknesses we have and under what circumstances they will be exposed. I realized this truth when I profiled a case in my early years. Since then, I have used it many times in handling cases, not just when teaching my staff by precept and example.That was the first time I set up an interrogation scene. In December 1979, Special Agent Robert Leary of the Permanent Office in Rome, Georgia, called and described a horrific case and asked me to give it priority.A week ago, Mary Francis Stoner, a pretty, straightforward 12-year-old girl who lived in Adairsville, a half-hour drive from Rome, died after getting off her school bus at the intersection of her driveway. Missing, her home was about 100 yards from the road.

Her body was later discovered about 10 miles away by a young couple on a wooded Lovers' Trail, who first noticed the bright yellow coat covering her face.They reported it to the police, who secured the scene untouched, as it was vital they considered this.The cause of death was determined to be blunt trauma to the brain.An autopsy found that the fractured skull was caused by a large stone strike. (Photos from the scene of the crime show a large blood-stained rock near her head.) Scars on her neck also show that someone stuck her to death with hands from behind. Before going through the case file, I want to know as much as possible about the victim.Everyone has nothing but praise for Mary Francis Stoner.She was said to be warm and friendly, sociable and lovable.She is cute and innocent, and she works as a female band conductor at school, often wearing a conductor's uniform to school.She is a cute 12-year-old girl who looks 12-year-old and will never pretend to be 18-year-old.She has not been sexually promiscuous and has never been involved in drugs or alcohol.The autopsy clearly showed that she was a virgin when she was raped.At the end of the day, she was the kind of low-stakes victim we described coming out of a low-stakes environment. After listening to the case report, listening to Leary's description, and studying the case materials and scene photos, I briefly wrote a half-page summary: This was a random rape and the homicide was not premeditated or intentional.Clothes on the corpse appear disheveled, suggesting that Mary Francis was forced to undress and then allowed to dress hastily after the rape.From the photo I can see that one of the shoes has not been properly tied.The investigative report stated that there was blood on her underwear.Her back, buttocks and feet were free of debris, suggesting she was raped in the car and not in the woodland where the body was found. While looking closely at those rather routine crime scene photos, I understood what was going on.I can imagine the whole process of this case. Because Mary Francis was young, extroverted, and trusting, she was easily approachable in an environment as unthreatening as a school bus stop.The killer likely coaxed her into approaching his car and either dragged her into it or threatened her into it at gun or knife.The remoteness of the location where the body was found suggests he was familiar with the area and knew he would not be disturbed there. Judging from the location of the abduction, I concluded that it was not a premeditated crime, but decided to start it when he was driving by.As the Odom and Lawson case showed, if someone else happened to be on the scene at the right time, the criminal would not have gotten his way.It is precisely because of the cuteness and cheerfulness of the little girl that the murderer's heart is stimulated by fantasies, and he mistook her innocent and friendly attitude for an expression of willingness to play sexual games with him. In reality, of course, the truth shattered his illusions.Horrified by his violence, she would cry out for help or beg for his life in excruciating pain.His years of fantasies were one thing, but reality was another.Facing the little girl, he lost control of the situation and at the same time realized that the situation had been messed up by him. At this juncture, he realizes that his only way out is to kill and silence him.But she was afraid of losing her life, so controlling her was more difficult than he imagined.To make things easier, to make her more cooperative and submissive, he told her to get dressed quickly, and he would let her live—either he would let her escape by herself, or he would tie her to a tree, Leave the scene by yourself. But when she just turned to leave, he came up from behind and strangled her neck.He might be able to strangle her unconscious, but that would require a lot of upper body strength.He couldn't control her before, and now he couldn't strangle her to death.He dragged her under a tree, grabbed a large rock nearby, and struck her three or four times on the head, killing her. I had the feeling that the murderer didn't know Mary Francis very well, having only met a few times in the city, but enough for her to recognize him at the first meeting, and enough for him to have wild dreams about her.It's possible he'd seen her go to school in that trumpet command suit. From the act of covering her head with the coat, I knew that the perpetrator we were after didn't feel too good about crime.I also know that the longer the time, the worse it is for the police.In the case of this type of case, and this type of intelligent, methodical murderer, the murderer thinks about the crime, excuses himself, assumes that the fault is on the victim and that his actions are justified.The longer the thought process, the harder it would be to get him to confess.Even if he took a polygraph test, the results would be inconclusive at best.Once he feels that the investigation has cooled down and his departure does not arouse suspicion, he will abscond to another part of the country, and it will be very difficult to track him by then, and another little girl will be in danger . It seemed to me that the perpetrator obviously lived in the area, and the police almost certainly had an appointment with him.He will appear cooperative in criminal investigations, but rather arrogant.If the police charged him, he wouldn't be broken.I told the police that the perpetrator of such a complex case would not be a first-time offender, although there was a good chance it would be his first murder.His blue or black car may be years old because he can't afford a new one; but it's in good shape and well maintained, and everything in it will be in order.From my past experience, organized, obsessive people like him tend to like dark cars. After hearing this inference, a police officer on the other end of the phone said: "Isn't the guy you described just a suspect we just let go." He was also listed as a suspect in another case, which fully fits the bill. Write on one side.His name is Darrell Jean Deville, a white man, 24 years old, married and divorced twice, and currently living with his first wife.He worked as a tree trimmer in Rome, Georgia, and was a prime suspect in the rape of a 13-year-old girl in the city, but was never charged.After his first divorce, he served in the Army Corps and was discharged seven months later for AWOL.He drives a three-year-old black Ford Pinto, which is in good condition.He admitted being arrested as a teenager for possessing Molotov cocktails.He dropped out of school in eighth grade, but IQ tests show his IQ is between 100 and 110. The police made an appointment with him to ask if he saw or heard anything.He had been pruning trees for the electricity company on the street where the Stoner family lived for two weeks before Mary Francis was kidnapped.The police told me he was due to take a polygraph test that very day. I told them it was not a good idea.They gain nothing from the polygraph, and doing so only improves the suspect's ability to handle the interrogation process.At the time, we did not have extensive field experience in interrogating suspects, but from interviews with prisoners and from ongoing research on serial killers, I think I knew.Sure enough, they called me the next day to tell me that the polygraph had failed. Now that he knows he can defeat the machine, I think there is only one way to bring him to his knees.The interrogation will be held at night, at the police station.Let the suspect feel more comfortable at first, and the purpose is to make him vulnerable to exposure when facing interrogation.Such an arrangement would send a message to him: We are serious and dedicated to our duties.He knew that this time there would be no chance to relax as easily as lunch or dinner, and he knew that if he surrendered, he would not be hung up as a trophy.Let the local police department and the Bureau of Investigation's Atlanta Field Station co-host the interrogation to reflect the image of a united front and also imply that the US government is going all out to deal with him.Stack stacks of portfolios with his name on them on the table in front of him, even if they're all blank. The bottom line: don't explain anything, just place the blood-stained stone on a low table at a 45-degree angle from his line of sight so he has to turn his head to see it.Pay close attention to all his nonverbal cues—his behavior, breathing, sweating, carotid pulse.If he's the murderer, he can't ignore the stone, even if you don't say a word about it or where it came from. We need to create an atmosphere where what I call the "pins and needles factor" works.I'm actually using the Stoner case as a guinea pig for my theory.We later perfected a lot of crime-solving techniques, and their experimental basis all came from this. He refused to confess, and we chased after him.Georgia has the death penalty; even if he had only been sentenced to prison, the child molestation charge would have gotten him molested the first time he took the shower.All the other prisoners are out to hurt this guy. To use dim lighting with a tinge of mystery, no more than two officers or special agents, preferably one from the Bureau of Investigation and one from the Adairsville Police Department, are present at an interrogation session.You have to imply that you have a grasp of the murderer's situation, what he is thinking and the pressure he is under.No matter how disgusting that is, you have to project your belief that the victim is to blame.To imply that she was seducing him.Ask him if she was seducing him, making him so impatient, if she was threatening him with blackmail.Give him a chance to save face.Give him an avenue to explain his actions. My case experience tells me that in cases of blunt force trauma or homicide with a knife, the attacker will inevitably be stained with the victim's blood.This kind of thing is so common that you can take advantage of it.I pointed out that when he starts to evade, even the slightest sign of it, you just look him in the eye and tell him the most confusing thing: he has Mary's blood on him. "Gene, we know you've got someone else's blood on you, on your hands and on your clothes. What we're asking you isn't, 'Did you do this?' We know you did it. Question It's: 'Why?' We think we know why, and we understand it. You just have to tell us if we got it right." That's how things turned out.They brought Deville in.He saw the stone at a glance, began to sweat, and had shortness of breath. His body language was completely different from the previous interviews, showing a tentative and defensive attitude.The interrogators projected guilt and responsibility on the little girl, and when he seemed to agree, they brought up the bloodstain.It really made him restless.When you catch the guy listening to you without saying a word, you can often tell that you're not mistaken.An innocent man is meant to yell.Of course a guilty guy will yell and try to convince you of his innocence.But you can tell the difference between the two. He admitted to the rape and agreed with his interrogators that she had threatened him.Bob Leary told him they knew he didn't intend to kill her.If there had been premeditation, he could have used a more effective weapon than a stone.In the end, he confessed to the murder and also confessed to the rape committed in the city of Rome a year earlier.Darrell Jean de Vere was tried and sentenced to death for the rape and murder of Mary Francis Stoner.He was executed in the electric chair in Georgia on May 18, 1995, nearly 16 years after the murders and his arrest - nearly four years longer than Mary Francis lived . I have found that the key to a successful interrogation is to be creative and use your imagination.I had to ask myself, "If I did the crime, what would give me away?" We all have weaknesses.Everyone's situation is different.In my case, due to sloppy bookkeeping, my agent in charge would call me in and show me my bills on his desk, making me break out in a cold sweat.There is always something wrong.Everyone has weaknesses. The lessons learned from the Dwyer case can be applied on a wide scale, far beyond the pathological realm of sexual murder.It doesn't make much difference whether you want to solve a case of embezzlement of public funds, corruption of government departments, sale of stolen goods, or bribery of a labor union.The principle is the same.My advice for dealing with this type of case is: target the person you think has the "weakest link", figure out a way to hook him, show him the trouble he's in, and emulate the success of other cases win his cooperation. This is a crucial matter in any type of conspiracy case.All you have to do is pick a guy to be a government witness and watch the whole casino fall apart.It's important to pick someone to break through, because if you don't pick someone well and you can't play him later, he'll let others know and you'll start from scratch. For example, we are investigating a corruption case in a large city government department, and we suspect that 8 to 10 people in a certain agency are involved in the case.Assume that the agency's No. 1 or No. 2 is the best "catch."However, when we profiled this guy, he was perfectly behaved despite his corruption.He is neither greedy for drinking nor indulging in womanizing.In truth, he was a family-oriented man with no illnesses, no money problems, no glaring weak links.If someone from the bureau came to him for information, there's a chance he'd deny it, tell us all to go to hell, and sound the alarm to everyone else. The way you subdue this kind of guy is to start with the small fish, just as you would with organized crime.As we go through the entire case record, it may be that from among the other suspects one is destined to emerge who will satisfy our purposes.This guy is not a high-level person, just a clerical person who handles paperwork.He's been doing it for 20 years, so it means a lot to him.He had money problems and health problems, both of which became serious vulnerabilities for him. The next question was who to choose to "play" the role of conducting the interrogation.I usually choose someone a little older and more authoritative than the suspect, someone well-dressed and imposing, someone who can be friendly and forthright and put the suspect at ease, but who, if necessary, can A turn of the face becomes absolutely serious and merciless. If there is a major holiday a few weeks away, maybe a suspect's birthday or anniversary or something, I would suggest postponing the interrogation to take advantage of that.If you confront him in a festive room and make him realize that if he doesn't cooperate, this might be his last holiday with his family, then you can add some advantage. When dealing with non-violent suspects, "Settings" can achieve exactly the same effect as Stoner's murder.As with any large-scale or ongoing investigative effort, I recommend bringing together all the material at hand, whether prepared for the case or not.If your "task force" occupies a conference room with secret agents, police personnel, and case files on the desk, it shows the suspect that you are taking the case seriously.If you can "decorate" the wall, such as hanging a few enlarged photos and profile pictures, it can show that the ongoing investigation is formal and large-scale, and your goal will be more easily achieved.If you can also put a few video players and play the videotapes of the crimes committed by the monitored suspects, you can get a good rendering effect. My personal favorite tactic is to hang charts on the walls showing each suspect's upcoming sentence if convicted.This practice can hardly be said to have any far-reaching effect, but it does always create pressure on the perpetrator, reminding him of his immediate interests.I just want to make that "pins and needles factor" play as big a role as possible. I've always believed that late night or early morning hours are the best times to conduct an interrogation.People tend to be more relaxed at this time, and it is easier to expose their weaknesses.And if you and your guys are working all night, you can immediately send the message that this case is serious and you are working hard to solve it.There is also a practical consideration of nightly interrogation for conspiracy suspects, that is, the suspect in your hand should not be seen by anyone else.If he thinks he has been "discovered", no transactions will be made. The basis for successful trading will be grasping the real situation and appealing to the perpetrator's sanity and common sense.The setting is to create psychological pressure on the perpetrator.If I were to preside over the interrogation of a typical suspect in a government corruption case, I would call his home in the middle of the night and tell him, "Sir, I have a very important conversation with you tonight. Before we speak FBI agents are approaching your house at this time." I will emphasize that he was not arrested and did not have to be taken by the agents.But I would strongly recommend that he go to town with them, as this may be his last chance.He did not have to be told about his rights at this point, as he had not been charged. When he comes to our office, I ask him to calm down for a while.When that football team had to hit a long-range shot in the final game to win the championship, you called a timeout to give the shooters time to think.Anyone who has an important appointment and has to wait for a doctor knows how effective it can be. After he was brought into my office, I would close the door and try to be friendly, understanding, and open about everything.I'll call this guy by his first name. "I want to make it very clear that you understand that you are not under arrest," I will repeat, "you are free to leave here anytime you want, and my men will drive you home. But I think You should take my advice. This could be the most important date of your life." I might ask him to say a few words about the date to make sure we understand each other. "I also want you to know that we know your medical history and have prepared a nurse." That's true.One of the reasons we picked this guy is because he has this weakness. Then we start having a candid conversation.I would stress that the FBI understands that he is a little guy who does a lot of work for little pay and is not our top pick. "Right now, as you can see, we're meeting with a lot of people involved. There's no question your boat is sinking. You can go down with it, or reach out a third time and grab a boat before you drown. Lifebuoy only. We know you're being used, manipulated, taken advantage of by powerful people. We've got a lawyer and we can do a real deal if you want." At the end I'll drop a few stinging words and emphasize, "Remember, this deal is gone now. I have 20 agents working on this case. If necessary, we can be deployed at any time." , arrest anyone and bring them to justice. Even if you don't cooperate, do you think others will be like you? When the time comes, you will die with the thief ship. If you want to die with those big men, that's up to you. But this is us One last heart-to-heart conversation. Would you like to cooperate?" If he wants, which is actually in his best interest, we tell him about his rights and put him in touch with a lawyer.But as a gesture of goodwill, I might ask him to call and make an appointment with another interrogator.You don't want him to think otherwise and back off.Once you get a commitment from the first guy to cooperate, the rest of the case will gradually become clear. The reason it works so well even if you know all about my technique up front is that it benefits both the investigator and the suspect.It is based on real situations and is tailored to the suspect's life, situation and emotional needs.If I were the suspect being offered a deal, I would take it even knowing it was engineered to best effect, because it did offer me the best opportunity.The tactics of this type of interrogation are the same as those I employed in the Stoner murder case.I'm always thinking, "What's going to get me over there?" Because everyone has weaknesses. I interviewed gun robbery and plane hijacker Gary Trappnell at the federal prison in Marion, Illinois, and he was as smart and thoughtful as any other criminal I've studied.He was a man so confident in his talents that he assured me he could fool any psychiatrist in prison into believing he had any mental illness I could name.He also confidently said that if he was released from prison, he would be able to escape the punishment of the law. "You just can't catch me," he asserted. "Well, Gary," I said hypothetically, "just assume you're out of prison. You're smart enough to know that you have to cut all ties with your family to avoid the FBI. "I know your father was a decorated senior officer. You loved and respected him immensely. You wished to be like him. You didn't start your crime spree until after he died." I could tell by the expression on his face that I had touched a nerve somewhere in him. "Your dad is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. So what if I send agents to watch over his grave during Christmas, on his birthday, and on the anniversary of his death?" Trapnell smiled resignedly. "I've got you covered!" he declared. Likewise, the reason I was able to find a solution was that I tried to think in his shoes.I tried to discover what could overpower me.My past experience has taught me that there is always a way to subdue a person, you just have to find the way. For myself, what beats Trappnell works for me.A particular date may trigger a certain emotion. My sister Allen has a beautiful blonde daughter named Kim.She was born on my birthday, June 18th, and I've always felt a special connection to her.When she turned 16, she died in her sleep.We have been unable to find out the exact cause of death.To my pain and joy, my oldest daughter, Erika, resembles Kim.She is now of college age.I'm sure that whenever Aaron sees Erica, it's impossible not to see King in his mind, to imagine what King would look like if he was still alive.My mother felt the same way. If I made myself an interrogator, I'd plan my move before my birthday.I was very emotional at the time, and I was looking forward to celebrating with my family.But I'm also thinking about my niece, Kim, who we share a birthday and who looks a lot like Erica again.At this time, I felt my vulnerability.If I happened to see a photo of the two girls hanging on the wall, I would be even more upset. It doesn't matter that I know what the general strategy is against me.It also doesn't matter that I came up with the strategy myself.If the trigger is a legitimate, well-founded thing, it has the potential to work.This might be my weak link.And you have your weak link, and we've got to try to figure out what it's going to be beforehand.But there will always be weaknesses. Because everyone has weaknesses.

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Notes: