Chapter 47 "Exam" - Deng Xiaoping and Farage (4)

The second round of "examination": Deng Xiaoping's evaluation of Jiang Qing was "below zero."I called myself a "half and half open". Two days later on August 23rd. Farage walked into Zhongnanhai again. In this interview, Deng Xiaoping mainly introduced the situation of China's reform and opening up and his views on the international situation, but Mao Zedong would inevitably be involved. At the beginning, Farage's questions returned to Deng Xiaoping personally."Why do you want to resign as deputy prime minister?" she asked. "Not only did I resign, but our older generation no longer work part-time." Deng Xiaoping said, "We have a problem that the leadership needs to be gradually younger. We need to take the lead."

When introducing the situation of China's reform and opening up, Deng Xiaoping analyzed from the perspective of whether the "four modernizations" can be realized: "No matter how we open up, no matter how much foreign capital comes in, its share is still very small and cannot affect us. Socialist public ownership. The absorption of foreign capital, foreign technology, and even foreign factories in China can be used as a supplement to our development of socialist social productivity.” Regarding the fact that opening up may bring about some rotten things of capitalism, Deng Xiaoping said: "We are aware of this problem, but it is not terrible."

Behind the easy answer is the courage of a great man! When Farage talked about how to understand capitalism, Deng Xiaoping said: "Find out what capitalism is. Capitalism is superior to feudalism. Some things cannot be said to be capitalist. For example, technical issues are science, Production management is a science that is useful in any society and any country. We learn advanced technology, advanced science, and advanced management to serve socialism, and these things themselves have no class nature.” As a communist, Deng Xiaoping talked about the understanding of communism.He said: "Socialism is the first stage of communism. This is a very long historical stage. Distribution according to work must be implemented, and the interests of the state, the collective, and individuals must be combined in order to mobilize enthusiasm and develop socialist productivity. In the advanced stage of communism, the productive forces are highly developed, and the implementation of each according to his ability and distribution according to his needs will recognize more personal interests and meet individual needs."

Later, Deng Xiaoping put forward the famous theory of the primary stage of socialism on this basis. In this questioning, Farage asked about the relationship between Mao Zedong and Jiang Qing. She said: "You say that the 'Gang of Four' is a minority, and many people across the country oppose them. How can these minority people control China, or even the entire older generation of revolutionaries? Whether one of them is Chairman Mao's wife, their relationship Great, you dare not touch her?" In this regard, Deng Xiaoping made no secret of his views, and said bluntly: "There is this factor. As I said, Chairman Mao made mistakes, including using them. But it should be said that they also have a gang, especially using the Some young people have no knowledge, form gangs and have a considerable foundation."

"Is Chairman Mao turning a blind eye to Jiang Qing's mistakes? Is Jiang Qing like Cixi?" Deng Xiaoping said: "Jiang Qing himself did bad things under the banner of Chairman Mao. But Chairman Mao and Jiang Qing have been separated for many years." "We don't know," Farage replied. Deng Xiaoping further explained: "Jiang Qing acted under the banner of Chairman Mao, and Chairman Mao failed to intervene. Chairman Mao is responsible for this. Jiang Qing is so bad, it is not too much to convict the 'Gang of Four'. The 'Gang of Four' hurt thousands of people.”

"How do you think Jiang Qing should be evaluated, and how many points should I give her?" Farage's question always makes you unable to avoid. "Below zero." Deng Xiaoping's answer was even more without any hypocrisy. "How do you evaluate yourself?" Farage naturally asked the last key question. "It's good for me to be half-open. But one thing I can say is that I have a clear conscience all my life." Deng Xiaoping took a puff of cigarette quietly, then stretched out his hand, pointed to the interview book in Farage's hand, and said word by word. Seriously, "You must remember what I said. I have made many mistakes, including some mistakes made by Comrade Mao Zedong. I am also a part of it. It can only be said that they are also mistakes made with good intentions. There are no people who do not make mistakes. We cannot attribute all past mistakes to Chairman Mao alone. Therefore, we must be very objective in our evaluation of Chairman Mao. First, he has made meritorious deeds, and second, he has made mistakes. We must inherit many of Chairman Mao’s good ideas. Come down and explain his mistakes clearly."

In this way, the two rounds of "exams" that lasted four hours ended. On August 28, Italian newspapers published the content of this conversation. Afterwards, newspapers around the world reprinted them one after another, and commented: "Deng Xiaoping announced for the first time that at next year's party congress, he will not comprehensively criticize Mao Zedong like he criticized Stalin, but will summarize the progress after the 'Great Leap Forward'. The general line.” Another commented: “It is extremely exceptional for Chinese leaders to explain the outline of the party’s line in the future.”

Two years later, when former U.S. Secretary of State Kissinger visited China, he said to Deng Xiaoping: "I saw your conversation with the Italian female journalist Farage. Among all the leaders in the world, you are the only one who is better at talking with Farage. her people."