Chapter 4 Confucianism and Buddhism

Ai: How did you know that this book was published (referring to Ai's "The Last Confucianism" - the editor)?That is, an old friend of yours, this... Liang: There is one named Zhu, right? Ai: Yes, there is a person surnamed Zhu who used to be my student. He called me and said that you knew about this matter. How did you know it? Does this book exist in China or abroad... Liang: A friend sent it to me. Ai: From America? Liang: Yes, there is a person surnamed Hu named Hu Shiru. Ai: Because he also wrote to me. Do you remember, was he a student at Peking University in the 1920s or...

Liang: I don't remember clearly. He knew me very well, but I didn't know him that well. Ai: Three months ago, I saw your photo in some newspaper. When I was about to move in, was it a reporter from Hong Kong’s Ta Kung Pao who came to interview you, or... Liang: The reporter, he has a reporter from the China News Service, and three people came to see me. Ai: Well, I am not a reporter myself. If I write any articles in the future, I will first send the manuscript to you for review... Liang: Well, that's good. Ai: I still don't know what kind of publications or magazines it is, or whether it depends on the interest of the chief writer of the newspaper or magazine.

Liang: Yes. Ai: When I was researching your life, several of you were students or worked in Zouping, Shandong. I don’t know if they have contacted you recently.There is one in Hong Kong who is also surnamed Hu... Liang: Yes, Hu Shisan; Hu Yinghan, No. Shisan. Ai: Oh, yes.When I went to Hong Kong almost ten years ago, I started to study this issue and visited him. He also gave me a lot of valuable information.There is another one named Wang, Wang Shaoshang (same pronunciation), who was a student in Guangzhou No. 1 Middle School. Liang: Yes. Ai: Mr. Tang Junyi and Mr. Mou Zongsan are also related to you.

Liang: It does matter. Ai: There is another person named Zhang in the United States who also participated in the rural construction movement back then, but he worked in Ding County. He was in a university in the United States. I don’t know about it in recent years, and I haven’t contacted him.There is a Zhou Shaoxian in Taiwan who still admires you very much and has published some articles.Recently, a Taiwanese newspaper translated an article about you into Chinese and published it, because they only translated a few parts into Chinese, which seemed not systematic enough. Mr. Zhou also wrote an article criticizing my article.

Liang: What journals were they published in? Ai: The newspaper is China Times.In Hong Kong recently, I saw your message two or three times. Liang: They came to visit me and talk to me. Ai: In the past few decades, I know that you are on the side of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference... Liang: I have always been in the CPPCC. Ai: Then you are still writing, or... Liang: I wrote things a few years ago, but I seldom write these days.A few years ago, I mainly wrote a long article called "People's Heart and Life". Ai: You started writing a long time ago.

Liang: Yes, this article is quite long, and it took three volumes to write it down. There is also a short one, which talks about Laozi and Confucius in China and Buddhism in India, three schools of thought.This article on the Three Schools is not as long as "Human Heart and Life", and is more concise. Ai: They haven't been published yet, have they? Liang: None.In the past, it is better now. In the past, the government had a ruling ideology that could not be released casually. Ai: Is it because of the "Gang of Four"... Liang: Not exactly their relationship.It has been like this for many years, but now it is better and more relaxed.In order to obtain the consent of the leaders to have my book published, I sent a not too long article of mine to the leaders and to the CPPCC.This not-too-long article is about 10,000 words, 11,000 words. This article has such a title: "How should we evaluate Confucius today."Please take this article for them to read, I mean this article can represent my thoughts, for the convenience of the leaders when reading it, the big tome, a total of three volumes is too time-consuming, so I take this article Ask them to read the article, I mean ask them to review it.They are in the CPPCC, the chairman of the CPPCC is Deng Xiaoping, Deng himself is too busy, and it was originally given to the CPPCC for him to read, but he is too busy to have time to read it.He handed it over to a deputy secretary-general. The deputy secretary-general read it. The deputy secretary-general told me that the leader gave it to him. He read it. He endorsed some comments and handed it back. down.

Ai: Still waiting for this... Liang: Yes, the officialdom is not efficient. Ai: Yes, we are like this in the United States. Liang: So, I was urging you to return that thing to me. The Deputy Secretary-General who read this article told me, "Don't worry, this article is also a lot of pages. I can't find it anywhere."It seems that there are a lot of files, and I turned around and couldn't find them. Ai: Is there any savings? Liang: Of course I have. Ai: Are there any photocopying machines in China now? Liang: Yes. Ai: Not too common, is it? Liang: Not very common.

Ai: This looks worse, if there is a copier... Liang: All right. Ai: At least on behalf of the academic community in the United States, I am very eager to have the opportunity to read your recent works, and I hope that there will be an opportunity in the near future.One of my former colleagues, a Chinese from Berkeley University, Du Weiming, was also a researcher of Confucianism in the United States. Liang: He came to see me. Ai: Has he been here?Before he came to China, he told me that he would visit you.Did he mention me?Because when he left, there was a problem with the reception unit, and I didn’t know what to do. He said that maybe the Beijing Normal University was my reception unit, but he didn’t contact me. connection……

Liang: It’s better to go through the CPPCC. That Du Weiming came to see me. After he came, he left me his writings and works. What he left for me was in Chinese, about Wang Yangming.Has he gone to Dunhuang now? Ai: Oh, went to Dunhuang?I don't know about this. Liang: Go to Dunhuang to see the ancient... Ai: He has been studying Zhu Xi's issues in recent years.Because we are both PhDs from Harvard University, but he is earlier than me. We have known each other more than ten years ago. Have you had the opportunity to read Western works and books on Chinese philosophy? Liang: It is very difficult for me to read Spanish, so I asked a friend to read it for me.

Ai: It is not easy to read a few books. Liang: After reading it for me, he explained it for me. Ai: My Chinese friend said that it might be possible to translate it (referring to the book "The Last Confucianism" written by Ai—the collator) into Chinese. I don't think it will be easy.To Westerners, it is easy, clear, and vivid, but it is quite difficult to translate into Chinese.Especially the more subtle meanings, which are not easy to express, this is a problem.I already know that in Zhou Shaoxian's published articles, he does not quite agree with my most basic point of view about you.I think it is because we Westerners study Chinese issues and the Chinese study Chinese issues in a very different way.Mr. Zhou has been your student, and his standpoint is different, so I will add a little criticism. Mr. Zhou must... For Chinese, the analysis method of Westerners is rather strange and not used to.Mr. Liang has done comparative research on Chinese and Western cultures. Maybe you know that the methods and analysis methods used by Western and Eastern academic circles are different....I don't know, you said that some friends translated several parts of several books to you?

Liang: He told me verbally. Ai: I can't guarantee how well they did the translation, maybe they got some meanings wrong.However, in general, do you have any reaction? Liang: Nothing. Ai: No response? Liang: I mean, we talk to each other, I still hope you understand the root of my thought, which is Confucianism and Buddhism.What I mean is, if I can understand more about my fundamental thoughts—that is, Buddhism and Confucianism, it is better than anything else, and it is more important than knowing some things about my past.What I hope for you is to know more about Confucianism and Buddhism. I would like to tell you what I know about Confucianism and Buddhism.I mean to focus our conversation on this place, not on my personal affairs.Because Buddhism and Confucianism are my foundation, it is best and most important to understand this foundation.Not only do I expect you, but I also hope that Europeans and Americans can learn more about these two schools, one Confucianism and the other Buddhist. Ai: Mr. Liang, you are very old now, that is to say, has your interest in Buddhism and Buddhism seemed to have recovered or increased? Confucianism. Liang: That doesn’t really matter. I said I gave up, but I didn’t give up. It’s just that I wanted to become a monk, but I gave up the idea of ​​becoming a monk, and my mind is still the same. Ai: Ah, now I understand a little bit.In fact, this is also what I wrote in my book, that is to say, you are not giving up completely, but you feel that the current problems do not need Buddhism, but Confucianism.Because of this relationship, you start to study Confucianism. Liang: Let me explain myself. I was very young, for example, when I was sixteen or seventeen, I wanted to become a monk. Ai: I made a mistake.It is really to be a monk, not a layman. Liang: Well, no.Really want to become a monk.Well, I didn't give up this idea until I was 29 years old, and I stopped going out.A monk who becomes a monk cannot marry a wife, but a person, he is not only a person with brains and thoughts, he is also inseparable from his body. Suppose, if it is true from his original wish, he became a monk very early in the temple If you go there, there probably won't be any problems, or you may be very peaceful, or you may have no problems. However, I did not become a monk very early, so I was dragged away by Mr. Cai Yuanpei, and asked me to teach philosophy at Peking University.Take this step, and there will be a change.What does it look like to take this step?It is not to go to the temple to be a monk, but to go to the intellectual world and be with the intellectuals.When he is with intellectuals, it is inevitable that he will have the competitive spirit of intellectuals against intellectuals, that is, to compete with each other. This competitive heart comes from the body.If it is like what I thought at the beginning, if I become a monk early and go to the temple, it can be peaceful and stable, and I should take a very calm path.But once in the university, with many intellectuals, it is easy to argue with each other, which arouses a competitive heart.This desire to compete is part of the body, and if it is part of the body, it is prone to sexual problems. Monks don’t want to marry wives. He can live in the temple and forget about it completely. He doesn’t want to marry a wife at all. When intellectuals are together, they often have this kind of competitive spirit. This is a physical problem, and when the physical problem comes, they want to get married at this time. I didn't want to get married.When my mother was still alive, she was very young. When I was a teenager, she wanted to get engaged according to the old Chinese custom, but I refused.When I arrived at Peking University, I was with some intellectuals. I had a competitive heart and my physical power increased, so I wanted to get married, so I didn't give up becoming a monk until I was 29 years old. what is buddha ... Liang: It has been ten years since the Republic of China when I talked about it in Jinan, and it was summer when I talked about it in Jinan.They have a summer lecture meeting. During the summer vacation, their academic circles in Jinan have a summer lecture meeting. They invited me to give a lecture. This is the summer of 1921.There, I lectured in Jinan for 40 days, each day before noon, for half a day, then, after 40 days of lectures, I returned to Beijing.Two friends helped me record. He recorded when I was speaking, but his recording still couldn’t keep up with my speaking speed, so in the end, the friend who recorded has his other tasks. He is in this "East and West Culture" He failed to record the last chapter of "And Its Philosophy".The last chapter is my own pen and ink, I wrote it myself. Ai: That's right. It's a pity that I didn't have the opportunity to consult with you face to face before writing the book.These, of course, can also be said to be very important. Liang: These are all about myself, personal.As I said just now, what I hope most is that I will talk about Buddhism and Confucianism, let me talk about it, and I hope you can really understand the things of the East, the most valuable things in the East.Of course, I am not very familiar with the academic circles in Western Europe and America. I am afraid that there are very few people who can really understand Confucianism and Buddhism.Well, so I hope you can understand Confucianism and Buddhism, then, I will tell you what I understand, and I hope that this can be regarded as a key point in our conversation.We can talk slowly and meet more times. (Ai: Great.) If we can stay in Beijing for a while, we can talk more.In my explanations of Buddhism and Confucianism, I also hope that you can ask questions. Only when you can solve your own ideological problems can you be considered to understand. If you have not solved your own ideological problems, it is still equivalent to not listening. Ai: Yes, it is of course necessary to take thoughts as the main body, but sometimes thoughts also involve your personal affairs, and maybe some wrong facts can be corrected before the paperback book is published in the future (Liang: Revise .)edit a bit.I certainly agree that thinking is the most important subject, but it can also be said that a person's thinking cannot be separated from his personal life. Liang: That is, absolutely inseparable, absolutely inseparable.Speaking of this situation, I can say one thing. As I mentioned just now, I wanted to become a monk since I was a child, so I can be said to be a Buddhist. Buddhists have to look at it from two sides, or it can be said to look at it from two levels.Buddhism, primitive Buddhism generally calls it Theravada, and Theravada is mainly about birth.What is birth?To be born is to be born and die.The world, what is it called the world?It is birth and death, endless birth and death.So in Buddhism, they say it is reincarnation.Reincarnation, it means that life is "similar and continuous". "Similar" means similar, similar, similar and continuous, life is like this.That is to say, there is no me, no me of yesterday, and it continues to this day. The me of today is still the me of yesterday. There is no such thing.It's just similar, almost, today's me is similar to yesterday's me, similar, similar and continuous, continuous, non-stop, not broken, not broken, because it continues, continues, similar and continuous, so it's not Broken, not broken, life is not broken.Some people think that it is over after death, but there is no such thing in Buddhism.Unbroken, unstoppable; but also very, often constant, as I said just now, thinking that the me today is the me of yesterday, without that thing, I have already changed.That change never stops.Always changing there, changing instantly, this is called "non-stop and extraordinary".This is a Buddhist view of life. As mentioned above, there is primitive Buddhism in Buddhism, which is generally called Hinayana. This Hinayana stipulates three conditions. One of the conditions is "all things are impermanent"-everything is permanent, there is no permanent thing, it is all changing Popular, this is the first one.The second point is "all dharmas have no self".The first sentence is "all actions are impermanent", and the second sentence is "all dharmas have no self".Zhufa is different from Zhuxing, the first sentence is "Zhuxing", and the second sentence is replaced with "Zhufa".Because all actions are current, that is to say, birth and death, birth and death are endless.Birth and death are endless, like the flow of water, flowing and changing.The first point is about popular changes, so it is called "all things are impermanent".The second sentence is "All dharmas have no self". "All dharmas without self" says that there are two kinds of dharmas, so adding "all" means that "all dharmas" are not one kind of dharma. What are the two kinds of "laws"?One is called the "law of action" and the other is called the "law of inaction." The "law of action" is the law of birth and death, and the "law of inaction" is the law of non-birth and death.Then someone asked: Is there anything in this world that is immortal?The Buddhists replied: There is birth and death, and there is no birth and death.Birth and death, not birth and death are one thing, not two.This means that "the law of action" and "the law of inaction" are one and two, and two are one.The first is "all things are impermanent", and the second is "all dharmas have no self".There is no "I" regardless of "actionable law" or "non-actionable law".All living beings, human beings are also all living beings, from the lowest living being, the primitive living being amoeba, all come from the "I", it all eats and fetches from outside.All creatures, from primitive creatures to humans, and humans are the highest, have one thing in common. Which one is the same?It is to get enough from the outside—sufficiency is satisfaction, and you can satisfy yourself from the outside.Taking one's feet from the outside is a mistake, and from the point of view of Buddhism, it is a mistake, and it is a loss of one's original nature.What is the original nature? The original nature is the perfection of self-nature, without any deficiency.This self-nature is perfect, without any deficiency, that is "Buddha".This "Buddha", don't think of it as some kind of god, or some kind of god or ruler, that's not the case. What is "Buddha"? "Buddha" is the body of the universe, and this body of the universe can be said to include everything, everything, and everything that is colorful and complicated, but it is also included. It’s just that there’s nothing left, nothing left.According to the principles of Buddhism, it is these two aspects, one is full of everything, and the other is nothingness, these two aspects are the same thing.The Buddha came out of the world, and the world is birth and death, so the world is birth and death, and birth and death and birth and death seem to be two aspects, like two things, no, they are the same thing.In primitive Buddhism, the first is "all things are impermanent", the second is "all dharmas have no self", and the third is "Nirvana and silence". Do you know the word "Nirvana"? Ai: "Nir" I know, "" is... Liang: "Nirvana" is three points of water.Buddhists all talk about Nirvana. There is a word "like" on the top of the word "", and a word "wood" at the bottom.Nirvana silence, "Ji" is Baogai head, an "uncle", the word Ji. "All actions are impermanent, all dharmas have no self, and Nirvana is peaceful." This is Hinayana.The Hinayana possesses these three points, which is the Dharma, and lacking one of them is not the Dharma. Mahayana Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism are based on the Hinayana, and the foundation is the three sentences just said, and a big reversal is based on the Hinayana.Hinayana is the way of Arhats, and Mahayana is the way of Bodhisattvas.The Mahayana way is to reverse the verdict on the basis of the Hinayana way, that is, it does not appear in the world, and its words are these two sentences, which are called "Don't give up all living beings, don't live in Nirvana". "Don't give up all living beings, don't live in nirvana", what will it do? It will return to the world, and it will not give up all living beings.The Hinayana seems to avoid the troubles of life and death, while the Mahayana has already surpassed life and death, and can reach the point where there is no birth and no death, but, to quote a Confucian saying, "be kind to oneself alone", Bodhisattvas are different from Arhats, and Arhats seem to have solved the problem by themselves. In pursuit of tranquility, a Bodhisattva does not abandon sentient beings. He wants to return to the world. He already has the possibility of not being born or dying, but he still wants to come back to the world. Why?Because it does not abandon all sentient beings.This is the end of our conversation today. Ai: Okay, okay, thank you.Can I ask a question, I have come to a conclusion from written materials, that is, looking at your works, I think you are taking the Buddhist concept of Bodhisattva and the Confucian sage concept as if, not in the same place. Basically, or in some ways, the same, as if it were a character.Maybe I don’t understand, my Chinese is not good enough, but you know what I mean, that is, saints and bodhisattvas can be said to have similarities, and when I studied your works, I felt that you did the same thing yourself, Bodhisattvas do the same, becoming saints.What do you think of my words? Liang: Yes, it is indeed similar.This is how it looks like. On the one hand, Confucianism stands on the standpoint of human beings, and what Confucianism says is never separated from people. It never separates people, and it doesn't even talk about ghosts and gods.Isn’t it that Zilu, who asked Confucius about life and death, he said: “If you don’t know life, how can you know death?” (August 12, 1980)