Chapter 35 Volume Four Chapter Four

Socrates earnestly taught his disciples to love justice.By his own conduct he left them an example of upholding justice, v. 1-4.He talks with a wise man Hippias, verses 4-9.It is better to practice justice than to talk about justice, §10,11.Obedience to the law is part of justice; what is the law?Sections 12-14.Who is the best governor of the country, v. 15.Universal obedience to the law maintains harmony, §§ 16-18.There are some unwritten laws, which cannot be violated with impunity, §§ 19-24.Obedience to God's law is justice, v. 25. Regarding justice, Socrates does not hide his views, but always shows his mind through his actions.In his private life, he strictly abides by the law and is enthusiastic about helping others; in public life, he obeys the leadership of the chief in all matters stipulated by the law. Disciplined and markedly above others.When he was President of Parliament, he prevented the masses from making resolutions that violated the law, and in order to preserve the law he resisted attacks from the masses that no one else could bear.When the Thirty Tyrants ordered him to do things against the law, he refused to obey them.When they forbade him to talk to the youth, and ordered him and some other citizens to take a man to be executed, he alone refused to carry out the order, because it was not in accordance with the law.When he was tried on the charge of Militus, the other defendants were in the habit of speaking flattering words to the judges in court, and unlawfully flattering and beseeching them, and by this practice many often obtained the release of the judge, But Socrates would never do anything illegal when he was on trial. Although he could be released by the judge if he followed the common customs a little bit properly, he would rather die by obeying the law than live by breaking the law.

That's what he used to say when he was talking to people, and I know he did it once when he was talking about justice with Hippias the Aeris.When Hippias returned after leaving Athens for some time, he found Socrates talking to people: If one wants someone to learn to be a shoemaker, or a carpenter, or a coppersmith, or to ride a horse, there is nothing wrong with him. The problem, he knew where to send him to learn; [it was even said, if anyone was going to get his horses and cattle properly trained] there were men everywhere who could train.It is strange that when a man himself or causes his son or servant to learn justice, he does not know where to learn it.

When Hippias heard this, he said, as if jokingly, "Socrates, are you still talking about the same old thing I've heard long ago?" Socrates replied, "Yes, Hippias, I am not only talking about the same old things, but what is even more strange is that I am talking about the same subject! But perhaps because you are a well-informed man, You don't say the same thing on the same subject." "Indeed," replied Hippias, "I always try to say something new." "Is it not the same thing that you know for sure, for example, about the alphabet, if someone asks you (Socrates) how many and which letters are in the word, do you now answer differently than before? Or about arithmetic, if When someone asks you if twenty-five is ten, is your answer now different from before?"

"Socrates," replied Hippias, "I always say the same thing as you do about these things, but about justice, I know I can now say more than you or anyone else can say. irrefutable". "Indeed," said Socrates, "what you have discovered is a great good, so that judges will never again judge to the contrary, and citizens will never again dispute what justice is, nor There will be lawsuits, there will be no quarrels, and there will be no more disputes and wars between countries for rights; I really don't know how to break up with you before I hear about such a great invention of yours ".

"But, I tell the truth," said Hippias, "until you say what you think of justice, you cannot hear it; you are always laughing at others, questioning and refuting every People, that's enough, and you yourself refuse to tell anyone why, or give your opinion about anything." "Why, Hippias!" said Socrates, "I have never ceased to express my own opinion of justice, don't you realize?" "What kind of reason do you have?" "If," replied Socrates, "I have expressed my opinion not by speech, but at least by deeds, don't you think deeds are more valuable than speeches?"

"Of course deeds are much more trustworthy than words," replied Hippias, "for there are many who speak justice and do unjust acts; and a man who practices justice can never be unjust. people". "Then, have you at any time perceived that I have bore false witness, or slandered anyone, or stirred up quarrels among friends or countrymen, or done any other unrighteous thing?" "No," replied Hippias. "Don't you think that if there is no injustice, it is justice?" "It is evident, Socrates," said Hippias, "that even now you avoid expressing your opinion of justice; for you do not speak of what a just man does, but of They don't do anything."Socrates replied, "I think that refraining from doing what is unjust is enough to justify it. But if you think this is not enough, see if the following will satisfy you more: I say obeying the law is justice."

"Socrates, do you mean to say that law-abiding and justice are the same thing?" "I mean it," Socrates replied. "I don't know what you mean by law-abiding, nor what you mean by justice." "Do you know the 'laws of the city'?" Socrates asked. "I know," replied Hippias. "What do you think they mean?" "They are agreements made by citizens unanimously, stipulating what they should and should not do". "Then," said Socrates, "are not those who behave according to these laws law-abiding, and those who do not behave according to them law-breakers?"

"Exactly," replied Hippias. "Then, is not the law-abiding person doing justice, and the law-breaking person doing injustice?" "That's true." "Then, is it not true that the one who does justice is just, and the one who does unrighteousness is unrighteous?" "How could it be otherwise?" "In this way, those who abide by the law are just, and those who break the law are unrighteous." "But, Socrates," retorted Hippias, "how can one regard these laws, or observe them, as of any real importance, since those who make them themselves often abolish or amend them?" ?”

"But," said Socrates, "city-states often make peace after going to war!" "Of course," replied Hippias. "Well, then, do you think there is any difference between despising those who obeyed the laws because they might be repealed, and blaming those who fought bravely because peace might be restored? Do you really want to condemn Those who have thrown themselves into battle to support their country?" "Of course not," replied Hippias. "Have you considered," asked Socrates, "that Lucurgus, the Deamonian, could not have made Sparta and the other city-states so Is there a difference? Don't you know that those city-states whose leaders are the most law-abiding are the best leaders, and those city-states with the most law-abiding people live happiest in times of peace and are irresistible in times of war Is it? And, for a city-state, unity is the greatest happiness! The councils and governors of such cities often exhort their people to unity. In Greece there are laws requiring people to take an oath of unity, and everywhere People are all swearing to do so. But I don't think it's done so that the people will choose the same chorus, nor admire the same flute player, nor rejoice in the same Poets, not that they may all appreciate the same things, but that they may all keep the law; for the city is strongest and happiest whose people keep the law, but no city can govern without a concerted effort. Well, any family can’t be managed well. As a people, besides obeying the law, what else can you do to make yourself less punished by the city-state and more respected by the people of the country? Defeat, more victorious? To whom will people trust and entrust their money or children? Who can the whole city think more trustworthy than those who follow the law? Parents, relatives, family Slave, friend, countryman, or stranger, from whom can justice be more assuredly received? In whom would an enemy prefer to trust in an armistice, treaty, or peace? Whom would men be willing to be but law-keepers? What about the allies? Who would the allies prefer to trust as a leader, or commander of a fort or a town? Whom can one expect to repay favors more than those who keep the law? Except those who are supposed to repay favors Besides, who would people prefer to be kind to? Besides such people, whose friend would people prefer to be, and whose enemy would they not be? Except those whom they desire to establish friendship and avoid enmity, and those most people would like to be With whom can men be more reluctant to fight than his friends and allies, and only a few opponents and enemies?

"Therefore, Hippias, I say that law-abiding and justice are one and the same; and if you have any opinion to the contrary, tell me!" "To be honest, Socrates," replied Hippias, "I have nothing against what you say about justice." "Hippias," asked Socrates, "do you know what unwritten law is?" "That is the law that is obeyed everywhere." "Then," asked Socrates, "can you say that these laws are made by man for himself?" "Then how can it be?" replied Hippias, "because it is impossible for all human beings to come together and not all speak the same language."

"Then who do you think made these laws?" asked Socrates. "I think," replied Hippias, "that these laws were given by the gods for mankind, since the fear of God is the first law of all mankind." "Is there not everywhere a law of honoring father and mother?" "That's right." "Isn't it also a rule that parents should not marry their children, and children should not marry their parents?" "Socrates," replied Hippias, "I do not yet see that this is a divine law." "Why?" Socrates asked. "Because I have noticed that some have violated this law," replied Hippias. "They also violated many other laws," said Socrates, "but those who violate the laws made by God cannot escape punishment; Use hiding or violence to escape punishment." "But, Socrates," asked Hippias, "what punishment is it that parents and children, and children and parents marry, cannot escape?" "Of course it is the greatest punishment," Socrates replied, "for what punishment is greater for those who bear children than bad children?" "Why must they beget bad children?" asked Hippias, "if there is no hindrance--they themselves are good, and the ones who beget them are also good?" "Because," replied Socrates, "not only must both parties be good, but they must also be vigorous; Are the descendants of those who have passed the age of full strength the same?" "Certainly not the same," Hippias replied. "So, which one is better?" Socrates asked. "Obviously the offspring of strong men," replied Hippias. "So, the children of those who are not physically strong must not be full of spirit?" "Very likely, indeed," replied Hippias. "Then such a person should not have children?" "Shouldn't be," Hippias replied. "Then the children born in this way are not what they should have had?" "I think so," replied Hippias. "Since that's the case, if these people didn't have bad children, who else would it be?" "On this point I also agree with you," said Hippias. "Also, is it not a law recognized everywhere to repay kindness with kindness?" "Yes, but this law was also broken," said Hippias. "Aren't those who break this law the punishment of losing good friends and having to appeal to those who hate themselves? Are not those who are kind to their acquaintances good friends, and those who do not Aren't they hated for being ungrateful? But, since it is to their great advantage to be associated with someone who is kind to them, wouldn't they still go out of their way to pursue such a person?" "Indeed, Socrates," said Hippias, "all this seems to be divine, since it seems to me that every law which itself brings punishment upon the transgressor must have been made by better legislators". "Then, Hippias, which do you think was ordained by God, the just law or the unjust law?" "Unjust laws are certainly not made by God," replied Hippias, "Because if God did not make just laws it would be hard for anyone else to make such laws." "It seems that God also likes to regard justice and law-abiding as the same thing." That is how, by speech and practice, Socrates makes those who come to him more just.