Chapter 33 Volume Four Chapter Two

A good endowment is unreliable without education.Socrates points out to the pompous youth Eusudaimus that no matter what skill you have, you need a teacher, § 1-2.Socrates points out to him that only fools think they can learn without a teacher, verses 3-5.The Necessity of Education for the Art of Politics, §6-7.Through a series of questioning, Socrates forces Eusudemus to admit his ignorance and incompetence, §8-23.The Value of Self-Knowledge, pp. 24-30.Further Education of Eusudamus, Sections 31-40. I will now describe how Socrates treated those who thought they had the best education and boasted of wisdom.He heard that Eusudaimus, nicknamed "Beautiful Man", collected a large number of works of the most famous poets and sophists, and thought that he had a talent beyond his contemporaries, and he was convinced that he could speak and manners surpass all men.Socrates heard that because of his youth, he had not yet participated in the market council. Whenever he wanted to do something, he always sat in a saddle shop near the market. Therefore, Socrates I often go there with a few disciples.

When Socrates first visited, someone asked him: "Thermistocles is so different from the common people that whenever the city needs a great man, the people always look up to him, because he and the common people look up to him." Is it because of the association of wise men, or because of his exceptional natural endowment?" Socrates, in order to draw Eusudamus's attention, said: "If it is absurd to say that it is absurd to say that a craft of little value can be mastered by itself without the guidance of a capable master, then it is absurd to regard it as governing a city-state." It is even more absurd to think that the greatest work of this kind will be done naturally."

During another interview, Eusudaimus was present, and Socrates saw that he was about to withdraw from the crowd in order to avoid being thought to be envious of Socrates' wisdom, so he said: "Gentlemen, From the preoccupation with which our Eusudemus has devoted himself, it is evident that, when he was a man, he would not fail to give advice to the questions which the city put forward. I see He has prepared a good opening statement for his speech. Lest it be thought that he has learned anything from anyone, this opening statement must start like this: 'O Athenians, I never learned anything from anyone, and if I had heard of anyone who was good in speech and action, I never went to talk to them; I have no one to teach me among learned people; on the contrary, I have avoided learning from anyone, or even giving the impression of learning.Nevertheless, I will advise you as far as I can think of'. "

"This prologue is well suited to those who wish to ask the city to send them medicine; they may begin with such words as: 'O Athenians, I have never learned medicine from any man, nor have I had any doctor as my teacher; for I have avoided learning from any doctor, or even giving the impression of learning.Nevertheless, I beg you to assign me a doctor's position, as I shall try to learn from you as guinea pigs'. " This opening remark made everyone present burst into laughter. When Eusudaimus apparently sensed what Socrates was saying, but still kept silent, thinking that such silence would give an impression of modesty and prudence, Socrates tried to make him stop. This pretense, says: "It is strange that those who wish to learn to play the harp, or the flute, or ride a horse, or any such thing, are always diligent and uninterrupted in the art they wish to acquire, And not only by themselves, but also by those who are recognized as the most proficient in this way. They do everything possible, persist in studying hard, and ask their masters for advice in everything they do, thinking that otherwise they are not worthy of praise. However, among those who aspire to be successful statesmen with oratorical and practical talents, there are those who think that these achievements can be achieved suddenly and automatically, without preparation and study. In fact, the latter is obviously more important than the former. It is difficult to succeed in the latter, because although there are many in the latter kind of work, few succeed. It is evident that the latter requires a greater and more painstaking effort."

At the beginning, when Socrates said these words, Eusudaimus just listened, but when Socrates found that Eusudamus was more patient and listened to him more seriously, he walked alone. He went into the harness shop, but Usudaimos sat down beside him.So Socrates said to him: "Eusudemus, please tell me, is it true that you have collected a large collection of books said to be written by wise men?" Eusudemus replied, "Socrates, this is not false at all. , and I'm continuing to collect as many as possible." "To tell the truth," said Socrates, "I admire you very much for choosing wisdom over gold and silver; for it is clear that gold and silver do not make men better, but the insights of wise men do. its owner is enriched in virtue."

Eusudemus was very pleased to hear this, because he thought Socrates thought he was rightly pursuing wisdom.Socrates saw that he was pleased with this compliment, and went on to say: "Eusudemus, what do you want to gain by collecting these books?" When Eusudemus was silent because he was thinking about how to answer this question, Socrates asked: "Do you want to be a doctor? Because there are many books written by doctors." Yusudaimos replied: "No, this is not my job". "Then, do you want to be an architect? Because this profession also needs talented people."

"I don't think so," Usudemus replied. "Perhaps you would very much like to be a good surveyor, like Ceodoras?" "I don't want to be a geologist either," Usudemus replied. "Maybe you want to be an astronomer," Socrates asked. But he also denied this point, "Then maybe you want to be a troubadour?" Socrates asked, "I heard that you have collected all the epic poems of Homer." "I don't want to be a troubadour," Eusudaimos replied, "because although the troubadours are very skilled in epic poetry, I know they are very stupid themselves."

Socrates said: "Eusudemos, maybe you want to acquire the ability to govern the country, to be qualified to be a leader, and to benefit others and yourself?" Eusudamus replied: "Socrates, I very much hope to obtain such a skill." Socrates said, "What you want is indeed the most wonderful ability and the greatest skill. This belongs to the emperor, and most people call it the emperor's talent." "But," went on Socrates, "have you considered that an unjust man can acquire such a talent?" "I have thought about it," replied Eusudaimos, "if a person is unjust, he cannot even be a good citizen."

"So, do you already have this talent?" asked Socrates. "Socrates," replied Eusudemus, "I think I am as just as anyone else." "Is a just person, like a craftsman, able to make a difference?" Socrates asked. "Of course," Usudaimos replied. "Then, as a craftsman can show his works, so can righteous people list their works?" "Don't you think I can't cite acts of justice?—of course I can—and I can cite acts of injustice, too, for we see and hear much of the same every day. matter." "Then, would you like," asked Socrates, "we write δ here and α there, and then we write under δ what we think is just and what we think is unjust. May I write it under α?" () δ is the first letter of Greek (justice), and α is the first letter of (injustice). - translator)

"If you think you need the letters, you do," replied Usudemus. When Socrates had finished writing as he suggested, he asked, "Hypocrisy is a common thing among men, isn't it?" "Of course," Usudaimos replied. "Which of the two sides shall we put it, then?" asked Socrates. "Obviously it should be put on the side of injustice." "People also deceive each other, don't they?" asked Socrates. "Sure," Usudemus replied. "Which of the two sides should this go?" "Of course it's the side of injustice."

"Is there someone who did bad things too?" "Yes," Usudaimos replied. "Then what about enslaving people?" "There are also." "Eusudemos, can't these things be put on the side of justice?" "It would be weird to put them on the side of justice." "If a person elected as a general enslaves an unjust enemy's people, can we also say that he is unjust?" "Of course not." "Then we must say that his conduct was just?" "certainly." "What if he deceives the enemy during combat?" "That's just too," Usudemus replied. "If he steals and robs them of their property, isn't what he's doing just as well?" "Of course, but at first I thought you were asking about our friends," replied Usudemus. "Then everything that we put on the side of injustice can also be put on the side of justice?" asked Socrates. "It seems so." "Now that we have let it go like this, we should draw another line: it is just to do this kind of thing to an enemy, but it is unjust to do it to a friend. You must be absolutely loyal and frank when you treat a friend. Do you agree?" Socrates asked. "Totally agree," Usudaimos replied.Socrates went on to ask: "If a general sees his army's soldiers are depressed, he deceives them that reinforcements are coming soon, so as to prevent the depression of the soldiers, we should put this deception in Which of the two sides is it?" "I think it should be on the side of justice," Usudemus replied. "Another example is a son who needs medicine but refuses to take it. His father cheats him by giving him medicine as a meal, and the son recovers by using this deceitful method. This kind of deception should be placed in the Which side?" "I think that should also be on the same side," Usudemus replied. "As another example, where should a man put his sword, or something of that sort, upon his friend's dismay, for fear that he might commit suicide?" "Of course, this should also be on the same side," Usudemus replied.Socrates asked again, "You mean that you should not be frank even with your friends under any circumstances?" "Indeed it is not," replied Eusudemus, "if you will allow me, I would rather take back what I have said." "It is absolutely necessary that you be allowed to do this," said Socrates, "because it is far better than to act incorrectly." "As for those who deceive their friends in order to injure them (which we should not pass away), which do you think are more unjust, those who willfully, or those who do not?" "Socrates, I no longer have confidence in my own answer, because everything I said before now seems different from what I thought it was then. Nevertheless, I say that anyone who willfully lies more unjust than a man who has no intention of telling a lie." "Do you think, then, that there is a way of learning and knowing justice, as there is a way of learning and knowing letters?" "I think so." "Which do you think is more learned, the one who writes incorrectly and pronounces incorrectly on purpose, or the one who accidentally writes incorrectly and pronounces incorrectly?" "I thought it was the intentional one, because, whenever he wanted to, he could do it right." "Then the person who writes incorrectly on purpose may be learned, but the one who writes incorrectly unintentionally is unlearned?" "How could it be different?" "Is it the one who knowingly lies and deceives who knows justice, or the one who lies and deceives unintentionally?" "Obviously the one who intended to do so." "You mean, then, that the man who knows how to write and read is more learned than the man who doesn't?" "yes." "Then the one who knows justice is more just than the one who doesn't?" "It seems so; but I don't seem to know how to say it." "However, a man who wants to tell the truth but is always uncertain, when he shows the way, sometimes says that the road is east, and sometimes says it is west; , sometimes counted as a small number, what do you think of such a person?" "Obviously, he didn't know what he thought he knew." "You know what some people are called slavish people?" "Know." "Is it because they have knowledge, or is it because of ignorance?" "Obviously out of ignorance." "Did they get that title because they didn't know how to forge iron?" "of course not". "Then maybe it's because you don't know how to do carpentry?" "Not for that reason." "Then it's because you can't make shoes?" "Neither, because on the contrary, most people who can do this kind of craft are servile people." "Then did they receive this name from their ignorance of beauty, goodness, and justice?" "I think so." "Then let us try by all means to avoid being servile." "To be honest, Socrates, I used to be very confident that I was a person who loved learning, and I also hoped that through this kind of research, I could achieve the accomplishments that a person with both ability and virtue should possess; but now think about it. See how disappointed I am with myself when I see that I have gone to so much trouble to be unable to answer a question which I should know most! I don’t even know.” Socrates said, “Eusudemus, please tell me, have you ever been to Delphi?” "Twice." "Have you ever seen the words 'Know Thyself' engraved on a temple wall?" "I've seen it." "Have you never thought about these words, or have you noticed and examined who you are?" "It didn't really occur to me that I thought I knew all about it, because if I didn't know myself it would be hard to say I knew anything else." "But do you think that a person knows himself only by knowing his own name, or is he like those who buy horses, who have never checked whether the horse is tame or arrogant, whether it is strong or weak, whether it is fast or slow, and whether the horse is beautiful or not? I don’t always think that I have already known the horse I want to know, but I must first examine how useful I am as a human being and how capable I am before I know myself.” "In this way, a person who doesn't know his ability doesn't know himself." "Is it not evident, then, that men gain much good by knowing themselves, and much evil by deceiving themselves? For those who know themselves know what is right for them, and can Distinguish, what you can do and what you cannot do, and by doing what you know, you will get what you need, so you will prosper, and if you don't do what you don't understand, you will not make mistakes and avoid disasters. And because of this self-knowledge, they are also able to recognize others, and through association with them, to obtain happiness and to avoid evil. But those who do not know themselves, and miscalculate their own talents, are also indifferent to other people and other human affairs. It will be the same, they don't know what they want, what they do, or the people with whom they associate, because they don't have the right idea of ​​all this. If they do not know what they are doing, they will not be happy, but will be in trouble. But those who know what they are doing, will be successful in what they do, and will be praised and respected by people. Those who have the same Those who knew were glad to associate with them; and those who failed in practice longed for their advice, and only followed their lead; pinned their hopes for good things in them, and loved them more than others for all. Others. But those who do not know what they are doing, who choose wrongly, who try and fail, not only suffer loss and blame in their own affairs, but are discredited, ridiculed, and live A life of contempt and ridicule. "You see, all city-states that go against their own strength and go to war with a stronger citizen will either become ruins or become slaves." "Socrates, don't worry, I also think it's a good thing to know yourself," Yusudaimos replied, "but, knowing yourself, where should I start? I hope you will be willing to tell me in detail. Let's talk." "Then," asked Socrates, "I suppose you know what is good and what is bad?" "Of course," replied Eusudemus, "if I didn't know that, I would be nothing more than a slave." "Okay, then please tell me something," Socrates said. "It's not difficult," Usudemus replied. "First of all, I think health is a good thing, and disease is a bad thing. Secondly, diet and living habits are the causes of these two. Anything that can lead to health is a good thing. Anything that causes disease is bad." "Then," said Socrates, "health and disease themselves should be good when they are the cause of good, and bad when they are the cause of evil?" "But," asked Eusudemus, "when is health the cause of evil and disease the cause of good?" "When one part goes on an expedition out of health, and is badly defeated, or takes part in a naval battle, and is wiped out, and loses his life, while another part is left alive through infirmity, and many other such things, this is the case. situation." "You are right," said Eusudaimus, "but, you see, there are some who take part in profitable causes by virtue of their health, and others by their infirmity." "Then, is something like this, which is sometimes beneficial and sometimes harmful, a good thing or a bad thing?" "It is true that it is difficult to tell whether they are good or bad by mere theory. But, Socrates, it is indisputable that wisdom is a good thing; and there is nothing in which a wise man cannot compare with an ignorant man. What can be done better?" "Why," asked Socrates, "you have not heard how Daedalus was imprisoned by Minos because of his wisdom, and forced into slavery, far from his native land, deprived of his liberty, when he fled with his son, Not only lost his son, but also unable to save himself, was he finally brought to the barbarians and made a slave again?" "There is such a legend," Eusudemus replied. "Have you not heard of the sufferings of Palamedes? It is often said how he was envied by Odysseus because of his wisdom, and was killed." "There are also such legends," Usudemus replied. "Do you know how many were brought before the Maharaja for their wisdom, and lived there as slaves?" "Socrates," said Eusudemus, "surely happiness is a good thing." "Happiness is a good thing if it is not composed of good things in question," said Socrates. "Among the things that constitute happiness, which are the good things in question?" Eusudemus asked. "If we did not include in happiness beauty, strength, wealth, glory, and the like, there would be no good in question," replied Socrates. "But," said Eusudemus, "of course we must include them in happiness, and what is happiness without them?" "Then," said Socrates, "we do place in happiness many things that cause misery to mankind. For many are corrupted by beauty by those who love it; Not a few misfortunes have occurred to those who, confident of their physical strength, tried what they were unable to do; many were corrupted by riches, and perished by intrigues; disaster". "Since I'm not even right to praise happiness, I'll have to admit that I don't know what to ask of the gods." "Perhaps," said Socrates, "you know these things out of overconfidence, so you don't give them sufficient consideration. But since the city-state you are going to lead is a democratic city-state, you should know that democracy ( δημDπραAια) what is it!" "I suppose, in any case, this is always known," replied Eusudemus. "You think, if you don't know what the people are, can you know what democracy is?" "Of course not." "Then what do you think a people is?" "I thought the people were the poor in the country." "Then, do you know who the poor are?" "How can you not know?" "Then, do you know who the rich are?" "I know who is rich just as much as I know who is poor." "Then what kind of people do you call poor and what kind of people rich?" "I consider all those who are not enough to satisfy their needs poor, and all those who not only have enough but have more than enough are rich." "Have you ever noticed that for some people they have not only enough, but more than enough, though they have little, and for others, though they have much, they are still not enough?" "Indeed," replied Eusudemus, "you are quite right in reminding me that there are even tyrants who, because of want, are compelled, like the poorest, to engage in lawlessness." "That being the case," said Socrates, "we should place the tyrant among the people, and those who are good at management, though they have little possessions, among the rich." Eusudemus replied, "Obviously, because of my own ignorance, I am compelled to agree with this; I think I had better be silent, since I know nothing at all".So Eusudaimus walked away dejectedly, despising himself, and thinking that he was really a slave. Many of the people Socrates treated in this way stopped coming to him;But Yusudaimus believes that in order to be a commendable person, there is no other way than to make friends with Socrates as much as possible.Therefore, if it is not a last resort, he always does not leave him. Eusudaimus also imitates some of Socrates' frequent moves. When Socrates saw Eusudemus in this state, he seldom embarrassed him, but always put himself in the simplest and clearest way what he thought he needed to know most and practically. Teach him what is best for you.