Chapter 21 On the Restoration of China's Legal Seat in the United Nations[1]

(September 30, 1956) Mao Zedong: The Bandung Conference[2] was a very good conference, the Bandung Conference was truly remarkable.Over the past year, the whole world has changed a lot.Yes or no? Sukarno: Yes, indeed.Wherever I go, everyone mentions the Bandung Conference. Mao: In the past, everyone mentioned the Geneva Conference[3] and the Bandung Conference at the same time.Now, the Geneva Conference and the spirit of Geneva are not mentioned much, and only the Bandung Conference is left. We were all very pleased to read your speech in America.In such a country, it is very good to speak such words.You represent the whole of Asia.

Su: I also think that I am speaking on behalf of Asia. Mao: Actually, you represent Asia, Africa and Latin America.Is America doing well? Su: Generally speaking, the welcome of the Americans is quite warm.However, the leaders of the US government are mostly not very happy, because what I said is something they don't like to hear.Whether they like it or not, I will tell the truth. Wherever we go in the United States, reporters always ask, what attitude does Indonesia take towards China's entry into the United Nations? Our answer is very firm, China must join the United Nations.We also added that if the United Nations did not participate in China representing 600 million people, then the United Nations would become a place for farces.

Chairman Mao: Do ​​you think it is better for China to enter the United Nations sooner or later? Su: The sooner, the better for the United Nations. Chairman Mao: We once thought about another aspect, that it would not be bad if we did not participate. Su: Indonesia believes that the sooner the better. Chairman Mao: Early participation or late participation, we have to prepare for both. Su: It's better to be quick. Mao: We think it's better to go slower. Su: I would like to know the chairman's thoughts. Chairman Mao: We publicly said that we would participate, and our friends also helped us in this regard. This is our right.Representatives of the 600 million people did not participate, but Taiwan did. This is unfair.It is not appropriate for us to represent Taiwan at the United Nations, but for Taiwan to represent us.In the negotiations in Geneva, we also mentioned this to the United States and pointed out that they were wrong.However, this was not a subject of the Geneva negotiations.The topics of the Geneva negotiations are: the repatriation of civilians, the lifting of the embargo, the exchange of people, and more importantly, the elimination of tension in the Taiwan region.

Su: I hope the chairman will talk about why China is not in a hurry to join the United Nations. Mao: Great Britain, the United States, and France are all imperialist and colonialist countries.For these countries, it will be better if we give them legal status in the country later. Su: However, the problem is that these three imperialist countries all have bad intentions. If there are no countries that oppose imperialism to participate in the United Nations, then the imperialist countries will be even more rampant. Mao: We can object outside the United Nations. Sue: I still don't quite understand.

Chairman Mao: Britain is eager to establish diplomatic relations with us.We came up with a method called negotiation, and we talked for five years on how to establish diplomatic relations.During this period, Britain was in China as a negotiator, not as a legitimate diplomat.Britain voted for Chiang Kai-shek in the United Nations, not for us.In this way, we have even more reason to accuse Britain of engaging in both sides.We now have semi-official diplomatic relations with the UK. SO: However, the chairman has not talked about the United Nations. Chairman Mao: I am explaining this truth. We are not in a hurry to establish diplomatic relations with countries such as France and West Germany.Since they are not in a hurry, we are not in a hurry either.As for how many years it will take, let's see! They can take as many years as they want, and the same is true for the United States.

The United States does not want to establish diplomatic relations with China now, which is better for us.The United States scolds us every day, and our ears are used to it.This brings us to the United Nations.The United States does not approve of our entry into the United Nations, and it wants to obstruct it. Su: This question can be discussed separately. The issue of establishing diplomatic relations between China and Britain, France, West Germany, and the United States and the issue of China's participation in the United Nations are two different things.The imperialist countries want to control the United Nations. After China participates, it can oppose this attempt.

Mao: The problem is Taiwan. Su: The Taiwan issue can be put aside. Taiwan and China are the same thing, and those who control the mainland should represent China. Mao: This is your opinion and our opinion.However, the United States and countries following the United States do not think so. Su: The problem can be solved in this way: one country proposes to invite China to join the United Nations, and other countries support it.This is a struggle, and Indonesia is willing to participate in this struggle.If the People's Republic of China joins the United Nations, of course the person representing Taiwan will have no rights.

Mao: Such a proposal requires a majority, or a two-thirds majority to pass? Su: A two-thirds majority.If adopted by the General Assembly with a two-thirds majority, the Security Council cannot veto it. Mao: After the proposal is passed by the General Assembly, can we enter the Security Council? There is a veto in the Security Council, and the five major countries[4] need to be unanimous.Among these five great powers, the first is called the United States, and the second is called Chiang Kai-shek. Su: No matter whether the Security Council has the veto power or not, once it is brought up, it will lead to struggle, which is always good.

Chairman Mao: We agree with this, but it is still difficult to solve in the end. Su: But world public opinion will be different.For example, if the General Assembly passes it with a two-thirds majority, if a big country in the Security Council vetoes it, it will be a stupid thing, and it will definitely cause resentment. Mao: Well, as a struggle, this should be done.However, there can only be one China in the United Nations, and there cannot be "two Chinas", and that China is us.Then, as I said just now, we need to prepare two votes, and we will prepare to go in, and together with you, we will vote for one vote.

Su: One China represents the whole of China, and the Taiwan Group represents Taiwan. As a transitional method, what does the Chairman think of such a strategy? Mao: This method is not appropriate.We are going to make an article on this topic.As long as there is a small Taiwan in the United Nations, we will not enter it. Su: However, this is only as a transitional stage, just like the relationship between West Irian [5] and Indonesia. Mao: West Irian does not represent Indonesia.Conversely, in the UN, Indonesia is represented, West Irian is not. Su: Can the question of China and Taiwan be made like the question of Indonesia and West Irian, that is, take Taiwan as the territory that China will recover?

Chairman Mao: Is there any representative of West Irian in the United Nations? Su: What I suggest is only a transitional method! Chairman Mao: We are going to use this topic to make a fuss.If there is a representative of Taiwan in the United Nations, we will not go in for ten thousand years. Su: That is to say, when the People's Republic of China enters the United Nations, Chiang Kai-shek will withdraw, and he will not have the status of Taiwan's representative. Mao: Yes. (Facing Ambassador Huang Zhen[6]) Has the Chinese Peking Opera troupe performed in Indonesia? Have you performed "Yandang Mountain"? Huang Zhen: I have performed. Chairman Mao: In this play, two factions are at war.The conservatives defended the city, the revolutionaries surrounded the city, and then flew into the city.A British newspaper drew a cartoon, saying that China's entry into the United Nations is like "Yandang Mountain", and it will fly in, that is to say, we will enter the United Nations. Su: The member states that have already joined the United Nations can unite and demand that the issue of China's entry into the United Nations be included in the agenda. Mao: Drive away the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek. Su: This is the ultimate goal. Chairman Mao: If Chiang Kai-shek's representatives don't leave, we won't go.We still have a lot of articles to do. Su: I ask this question in order to understand China's attitude. Chairman Mao: This is our attitude.If the General Assembly passes the proposal with a two-thirds majority and we don't get into the Security Council, then we have something to fight for and there is still time.For us, it's better to wait another five or six years.Six years later, our second five-year plan was completed.It is better to wait eleven years, when our third five-year plan will be completed.Now, we are a weak country, not a strong one.The United States is afraid of the Soviet Union, but not us. It knows our roots.China is a big country, but not a strong one, because we have nothing but a population of 600 million.People look down on us, and they still have a big thing in their hands, called an atomic bomb.We don't even have a small one.So why the rush? Su: Just now the chairman said that the United States is not afraid of China.In fact, this is not the case. The United States is afraid of China, but this is not because China has industrialized or has atomic bombs. Chairman Mao: It is afraid of our politics. Su: Yes, they are afraid of Chinese politics and Chinese ideology. Chairman Mao: I am afraid that if we spread it, it will be bad for it. Su: The United States does not approve of China's entry into the United Nations because the United States is afraid of China. Chairman Mao: The United States is a little afraid of China.To be honest, we are also a little afraid of the United States. Su: Australia is also a little afraid of Indonesia.This is not because Indonesia has already industrialized, but because if Indonesia takes back West Irian, East Irian will also be a problem. Chairman Mao: What you said is quite correct. What do you think we should focus on when we do work and make friends? In my opinion, we should focus on three continents, that is, Asia, Africa and Latin America, and more than half of Europe.What remains is only half of Europe, half of America, and one of Australia.They disapprove of us, and we are prepared to wait a hundred years for them. Su: Which countries disapprove of China? Chairman Mao: Great Britain still votes for Chiang Kai-shek.As long as it is like this, we will not establish diplomatic relations with it.It votes for Chiang Kai-shek for a hundred years, and we will not establish diplomatic relations with it for a hundred years, just exchanging agency.France and Belgium also don't recognize us, as do Portugal and Spain. Su: As I mentioned in my speech in Ulaanbaatar yesterday, most people in the world, almost all, are in favor of China's entry into the United Nations.If some countries put forward a bill asking the United Nations to admit China, and attaching a condition that China must join the United Nations, otherwise the United Nations will become a place for farces, and these countries will withdraw.In this way, if the United States objects, it will do a stupid thing. Chairman Mao: We fully agree with this, but there is no need to withdraw from the United Nations, and the struggle can be carried out in the United Nations. Sue: This struggle is complex and we need to consult with each other. Mao: Right.In the end, the result of the struggle was that Chiang Kai-shek walked.By then, we'll be flying into the United Nations, and the show will be over.However, we must prepare for the second item, that is, how many years we will not be allowed to enter. SOCRATES: This is almost the same as our question of taking back West Irian.In Indonesia, some people advocate putting aside the West Irian issue and thinking about how to build it first. When we are strong, West Irian will naturally come back.I don't think so, I think that one should build on the one hand and fight to get back West Irian on the other. Chairman Mao: This is the same as the Taiwan question.On the one hand, we must build ourselves strong, and on the other hand, we must take back Taiwan as soon as possible.Taiwan, like West Irian, has two periods of recovery.The first is earlier, which is of course the best.The second is to wait a little later, which is also okay, we can also sleep, so as not to suffer from insomnia. Su: But will this affect the people's mood for struggle? Chairman Mao: It is not entirely up to us to solve the problem. For us, of course, it is better to be earlier. Su: Shouldn’t it be taken into account that the people’s fighting spirit is like fire, which will go out if you don’t fan it? Mao: The fire is burning, but there are still two times: one is earlier and the other is later. Su: From this point of view, I agree.We should build while continuing to struggle. Chairman Mao: Of course it is better to do it earlier, but a later time is also fine. Su: Of course it can't be done in a day or two. Mao: Not a day or two, or a year or two, but ten or eight years, or even more. Sue: I agree with that.Taking back West Irian is not a matter of five or six years, it will take longer.But speaking to the people, we must say that the struggle will continue and West Irian will be taken back next year. Mao: I agree with you ninety-nine percent.We also promote the recovery of Taiwan every day, but we don't talk about tomorrow or next year.We ask to enter the United Nations every day, but we don't talk about time.We say every day that we want to establish diplomatic relations with all countries in the world, including the United States, but we don't talk about time.When Chinese people do things, they just don't pay attention to time.Some people laughed at us, saying that the Chinese always take their time.We happen to be this one. Sue: It's a strategy. Mao: No, it is true.The solution to the problem does not depend on our side, it depends on the other side to change it. Su: Who is the opponent? Mao: Great Britain, United States, France, Taiwan, West Irian, Netherlands.The problem is that their chief of staff is their own, not ours.It would be great if Foreign Minister Abdughani went to be the foreign minister of the United States. S: Now people in West Germany say the same thing.They say that if Adenauer [7] steps down, the whole of West Germany will change. Chairman Mao: If it changes and proposes to establish diplomatic relations with us, we have no reason to refuse. Su: The chairman's words are very flavorful, and they are all real. Let's sum it up now: In China's opinion, should we raise the issue of China's entry into the UN at the UN sooner or later? Mao: Bring it up early. Sue: That's all right. Chairman Mao: It should be mentioned once a year, and it will be considered a success in any year. Su: If you want to succeed, you have to go through struggle.There are many advantages to mentioning it early, so that countries can express their positions and the fronts are clear. Mao: Exactly. The same goes for the embargo issue.We demand the lifting of the embargo every day, but it is okay to lift it later.In fact, it might be better to delay the release a few years later.To be honest, we don't have many things, just some apples, peanuts, bristles, soybeans. Even if the embargo is not lifted, we will be able to sleep and eat well.We can wait six years, wait eleven years.At that time, the embargo will be lifted, China will be recognized, and China will be admitted to the United Nations. Then they will come to China to have a look, and they will regret it. That is to say, they will find that there is nothing they can do. Su: Don't they understand China's development? Mao: Understanding is understanding, but they are contradictory.On the one hand, they say that they are cheated by doing so now, but they also have difficulties on the other hand, which makes them want to fight us.Because this opening is absolutely unavoidable. After the decision is made, the water of the Yellow River will flow.For them, the face is very ugly.Our idea is that it is better to admit it earlier, and it is better to admit it later.At that time, when they come to China, it will be too late and they will be powerless.Moreover, we have a second rule, which is to make them lose face in front of the whole world.Because it's them who don't recognize us, not us who don't recognize them.We want to establish diplomatic relations with them every day, but they do not establish diplomatic relations with us.It's not that we don't get into the UN, it's that they don't let us in.We ask them to lift the embargo every day, but they don't.As a result, the United States will be completely passive, and all reasons will be in our hands and in the hands of our friends.There are a few ways to deal with the Americans, there are two things, one is not enough.The first is to fight resolutely and call every day. This is your method.The second is not to worry, this article will not be published in the newspaper. We also have such a delicate relationship with Chiang Kai-shek.We want to restore friendly and cooperative relations with him.We have cooperated twice in the past, why can't we cooperate three times? But Chiang Kai-shek objected.He opposes every day, and we say we want to cooperate with him every day.This makes our Generalissimo Jiang difficult to deal with, and his internal divisions are being divided. S: The American people and the ruling class in the United States are also not aligned.Some people in the U.S. Congress also support China's entry into the United Nations. Mao: Not a majority. SOCRATES: But it has already been approved. Chairman Mao: We are happy to see people agree.This time the Eighth National Congress of the Communist Party of China[8] was held, and we stated in our political reports and resolutions that we are willing to establish diplomatic relations with all countries.However, none of these reports and resolutions contains the content of the second article I just mentioned to you.Because we are good friends, so I let you know the background. According to the "Mao Zedong Diplomatic Selected Works" published in 1994 by Central Literature Publishing House and World Knowledge Publishing House. -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ note [1] This is a conversation between Mao Zedong and Indonesian President Sukarno. [2] The Bandung Conference, also known as the Asian-African Conference, was held in Bandung, Indonesia from April 18 to 24, 1955.The meeting was attended by the five sponsors of Myanmar, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), India, Indonesia and Pakistan, as well as Afghanistan, Cambodia, the People's Republic of China, Egypt, etc., a total of 29 Asian and African countries.The meeting extensively discussed issues such as national sovereignty, anti-colonial struggle, world peace, and economic and cultural cooperation with the whole country, issued the "Asian-African Conference Final Communiqué", and put forward the famous ten principles for promoting world peace and cooperation . [3] The Geneva Conference refers to the international conference held in Geneva, Switzerland from April 26 to July 21, 1954, to discuss the peaceful settlement of the Korean issue and the restoration of peace in Indochina.China, the Soviet Union, the United States, Britain, and France participated in the discussions on all two topics.North and South Korea, as well as twelve countries other than the United States, Britain, and France that invaded North Korea participated in the discussion of the Korean issue, and the regimes of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and South Vietnam participated in the discussion of the Indochina issue.No agreement was reached on the North Korean issue; on the restoration of peace in Indochina, an agreement on the cessation of hostilities among the three countries in Indochina and the Final Declaration of the Geneva Conference (collectively referred to as the Geneva Agreement) were reached, realizing the armistice in Indochina. [4] Refers to the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, namely the Soviet Union, China, the United States, the United Kingdom, and France.In 1956, China's permanent seat in the United Nations was still illegally stolen by the Kuomintang authorities in Taiwan. [5] West Irian refers to the western half of New Guinea Island and its offshore islands in Indonesia, now Irian Jaya Province.When Indonesia became independent in 1949, the Dutch government continued to occupy the area with the support of the United States.The Indonesian government has repeatedly hoped to resolve the West Irian issue through negotiations, but it has repeatedly been obstructed and sabotaged.In order to safeguard the independence and sovereignty of the country, the Indonesian people launched a massive armed struggle to recover West Irian and anti-colonialism, forcing the Dutch government to agree to negotiate.On May 1, 1963, the Dutch government returned the sovereignty of West Irian to Indonesia. [6] Huang Zhen (1909-1989), born in Tongcheng, Anhui.At that time, he was the Chinese ambassador to Indonesia. [7] Adenauer (1876-1967), then Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany. [8] The Eighth National Congress of the Communist Party of China, see note [2] on page 98 of this volume.